South Bend 1117 Lathe.....Help.
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    Default South Bend 1117 Lathe.....Help.

    Well, tomorrow I go pick up my new to me lathe. I believe it's a 60s era model, 1.5hp, 3 phase 240v, from a shop, about 2 hours from me. I think I got it for a decent price, not much of anything for attachments, the chuck needs replaced. But I have one that will need the 2-3/8 thread machined in the face plate. It's probably well used, but hopefully I can machine my parts with it, the reason why I decided to upgrade from a SB#9( for sale, if anyone is interested). The more I think about it, I'm getting nervous on how am I going to get off the trailer. I have a 2 ton engine hoist, and some dollies, going to be a long day.
    Pictures coming.

    Thank you.

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    In the August 1966 price list, they are just CL117 with a trailing letter for bed length

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    Based on 1.5hp and 2 3/8" spindle thread I'd say its a 16".

    If possible I'd use a lower trailer, so I'm not lifting as high. Don't know your bed length, but a 16" x 6' is about 2500 lbs.

    I took a long timme to move mine the first time, but now its pretty easy. I'd un-bolt and remove the lid covering step pulley. Then use a strap going around the step pulley to lift the head stock side.

    On tailstock side, I'd shove a strap though the end cross brace for bed above legs, or a strap to go around bed just in front of legs.

    Only lift one end at a time with engine hoist, and pushing hoist around will drag the other end you are not lifting. A 3' or 4' pry bar will help also.

    I'd place and lift headstock side toward ass end of trailer. To get it off trailer, lift head stock side up and drag off the edge far enough to lower that side down, then raise tailstock side, and drive trailer out.

    Remove tail stock completely, or lock it down so it don't slide. Can lock the saddle too.

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    Thank you for the reply, yes I believe it's a 16", a little bigger then what I wanted, but....
    Also, Thank you for the great description on how to move it, just one question just to be clear on my end. When you say the step pulley, you are talking about the head stock pulley, the one on top, correct?

    Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stampede View Post
    Thank you for the reply, yes I believe it's a 16", a little bigger then what I wanted, but....
    Also, Thank you for the great description on how to move it, just one question just to be clear on my end. When you say the step pulley, you are talking about the head stock pulley, the one on top, correct?

    Thank you.
    Yes, that's right. The machine is lopsided heavy on headstock side. By picking off the spindle step pully you keep the weight pointed down below it.

    You could use fork of a fork lift on bed, but even with fork close to headstock side, the weight of machine is not balanced.

    The whole motor, motor base assembly, and headstock make that side awkwardly heavy. I'd remove the door to see the spindle step pulley, to keep from accidentally breaking it.

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    Well Thank you Sir, that information was life saving, I would of not been able to remove the lathe from the trailer without it. I still struggled dearly, the wife of course is not happy, and I'm not sure how I will put it back on the trailer when I move. But it's in the garage, needs some maintenance before I start machining some parts.
    The good, came with a DRO on the x axis, also came with a Jacobs collet chuck, which I didn't know about till I picked it up, and came with a quick change tool post.
    Now for the bad, as I said the wife is not happy, but worst then that I found some wear on the bed that I did Not See the first time. It's up by the head stock, and it's more then I would like to see, but if I can make a couple of thousand parts with it I will be happy. We will see, he said it would hold couple of thousandths when they were running it.

    Thanks again!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stampede View Post
    Now for the bad, as I said the wife is not happy, but worst then that I found some wear on the bed that I did Not See the first time. It's up by the head stock, and it's more then I would like to see, but if I can make a couple of thousand parts with it I will be happy. We will see, he said it would hold couple of thousandths when they were running it.

    Thanks again!
    For the wife, I find casual comments help: "Did you lose weight ?" , "are those new clothes, sure looks pretty"

    On the wear, on short length cuts, let's say 2" or 3". You will probably hold .0005" without trying, regardless on where the saddle is on the bed. Where you will see wear more in relation to the work will be in longer cuts, let's say 6" or longer. Not sure what you have in mind, but I think you'l find the majority will be short length of cuts.

    There are other improvements in leveling and such to help you tighten it up a little also. Getting a test bar for your tail stock will help too, pretty cheap. Test bar for head stock, more expensive. Getting it level will be your first step towards accuracy.

    I'm actually in the process right now of doing all that to a 16". The first post is here at post #76:
    Getting Another South Bend 16x6 Operational

    Continuing here at post #86. I'm not finished yet, and not finished posting. But if you follow that the next several days you'll have an idea.
    Getting Another South Bend 16x6 Operational

    From South Bend's 55th edition of "How to run a lathe" you can see also:
    South Bend Lathe Works - Publication Reprints - How To Run A Lathe 55th Edition | VintageMachinery.org

    And the link for actual pdf on that:
    http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/1617/17726.pdf

    The leveling portion is page 9 and 10 of pdf. But pages 15 and 16 of manual.

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    That is great news, and more great information from you!! I'm still on the fence about my purchase, maybe some buyer's remorse. It's a little big for me, it didn't look that big in his shop.
    I will start going through those threads.

    Thank you!! 1024201525.jpg

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    Your lathe has a single lever gear box and a star clutch handle. It’s not a 60’s lathe. I would guess more like 1940’s. I have a SB16 too and it’s a dec 1957 model with the star clutch, hard bed and dual lever gear box.

    You can check wear in the ways with a straight edge.

    Here’s my girl.

    image.jpg

    And don’t let the size fool you. These big bone girls can pump out some incredibly small parts

    The “gold” screw was what I needed to copy.
    The silver screw is what I made on my sb16.
    Single point threaded it too! No tapping die
    86dc8804-e5f8-4ead-b7d5-65b6cf71ab45.jpg

    Paid 1600$ for mine

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    We feast on pics and updates, like Gollum needs his ring . So keep posting with updates and pics.

    If you give the serial number, on flat way, tail stock end we can tell which year it is. Based on pic, with single tumbler qcgb, I'm guessing 1940's.

    Up sides that I can see from pic. It has thread dial, micrometer stop, and all visible covers, doors etc. Plus a quick change tool post, though I can't tell the maker of it.

    Down sides for me is no chip pan. To add it proper, needs the chip pan plus shorter legs and a pedestal on tail stock side. 3 jaw chuck, prefer 4 jaw. You mentioned machining a chuck back plate for 2 3/8. You can buy the backplate already machined thread, just need to machine for center boss and threaded holes to bolt a chuck on. Can't see and guess no taper attachment.

    Buyers remorse. You live in Ohio ? That's like a machine buying heaven. Not sure what you paid, but if its under $2000 you could break even by accident in most cases with a South Bend. As a bit of an oddity, there are higher end machines that will buy/sell for the same cost. Due to weight or power not everyone can handle. Plus South Bend has a better showing of used and available parts as so many were sold. It makes South Bends attractive to wider audience.

    As an example, you were concerned about struggling with the move. A South Bend 16" at 2500lbs. I moved a Monarch 61, also a 16", a few months ago. I want to say 8700 lbs. I had to move it in pieces to manage the weight . Not everyone is going to do that. It's one reason South Bends are pretty popular in a home shop. Same with Bridgeports for mills, the weight and power is a bit more manageable at home.

    A real nice aspect of a South Bend 16" is you have a more weight, power, and stability over the smaller South Bends. And greater work size capability. But you also can run smaller chucks or collets quite naturally for smaller work. Electric power requirements are not big. And its pretty stable and rigid for what it is. A real nice package. A minor drawback being the top spindle speed. Done natural or original it tops out about a 1000 rpm.

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    A little more light reading.

    In another thread I linked a short list of 16" threads that guys overhauled or went through a bit. You can see that list here:
    New guy with new lathe

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    Mmmmm. Tex I do love me some pictures! Very much the Tasty

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    You guys are Great!!
    Yes, not having a chip pan kind of sucks, but I will have to make due, just add to mess in the garage. Even though I've been trying to clean up, get rid of lost interest projects, and stay focused on important projects.
    I like the size, especially height, and not being a table like my SB#9. I did not figure the weight of it being 2500lbs, I was thinking more like 1500-1800lbs. lol. I'm glad I didn't drop it and break something, I will have to buy another cherry picker to load it up, but that's later on.
    Everything Texasgunsmith said is so true, that's how I looked at it. I've been looking for awhile, either it sold be for I had time to look at, or it was to big/heavy ect, and taking something a part is not something I want to do.
    I am amazed in the past 6 months, even farther back, how fast/ how many machines have sold, I think it's crazy, never would of thought of that if I had not been watching. I would see something posted, come back a couple hours later and it was gone.
    I thought I wanted a Heavy 10, one came up for sale very local to me, went to look at it, and all I could think, I can't do much with this, it's not much bigger then my 9. He wanted 2500.00 for it, and it sold about a week after I looked at, it was a nice.
    So everything about this 16" is perfect for what I do, but for some reason the bed wear bothers me, if I can hold 0.001" in 3-4", I can't ask for anything else. And maybe in a year or two, I might find one with hardened bed.

    Well, I paid $1250.00 for it loaded on my trailer.

    Thank you.

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    And it was only 2 hours away.

    Thanks.

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    $1250 is like a wild weekend at the bar !

    Now you have not just a tool, but a Made in the USA machine. Investing in your future and family. Maybe your wife will like that explanation !

    While moving machines is no fun, you could flip it for even money or a profit with little effort. Even parting it out would probably put you in the black given time.

    Running basic checks with spindle clearances, alignments and leveling etc you'll hit inside that .001" mark.

    I'd pick up a felt kit and change oil in spindle and apron. Change spindle wicks, set the clearances while you're there. A pic of the top of spindle bearing cap will tell us which kind of bearing the spindle uses.

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    1250$ is a good deal. The wear is not a big deal, don’t let it bother you! They ALL have wear and you’ll never find one without wear. Just get to making chips. The front way wears more then the rear. Check your rear way for the true wear. The front ways wear is nothing

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    Here are some pictures of the lathe, with some items that came with it, and my question can the chuck jaws be reground, they only touch in the rear? Also, looks like there is a spindle/chuck stop stuck in the spindle.1025201630a.jpg1025201630.jpg1025201659.jpg1025201705.jpg1025201721.jpg

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    With those spindle caps you have copper bearings. The two set screws in the middle of the cap have to do with bearing adjustment. Don't remove cap without easing that adjustment, I believe. Also don't play with the adjustment until you read up on it. I don't have those, so you need others help. It's easy to damage bearings or adjusters, so really read on it, before you play with it.

    Mitutoyo is a good name, but unsure age or condition.

    The Jacobs chuck is fairly expensive if decent and all there.

    The spindle/chuck stop. Do you mean the pin in bull gear ? If so, that stays. Based on pic, it is currently in position to lock cone pulley to spindle. Pull pin handle toward chuck, and slide toward spindle center to unlock cone pulley, if you plan to use back gears.

    The way I know to true a 3 jaw chuck is from Don Bailey at Suburban Tool. In principle it would need an ID grinder, universal grinder with ID attachment, or and ID grinder attachment on the lathe, Though grinding with a lathe is really bad for the machine. He has a good vid on it here:
    How to improve the accuracy of your 3 jaw chuck. - YouTube

    Edit: one oddity is your back gear handle is pointed in a direction it shouldn't be able to reach. Maybe handle is pinned wrong to shaft ? Something else ? Note my pic, The handle is rolled back as far as it can. It would roll upwards toward 12 oclock to engage.

    373.jpg

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    The DRO did work, when I looked at, just read twice as much then it did, checked it with an indicator.

    I seen a guy id grind a chuck at work, it still didn't run true afterwards.

    There's a threaded shaft in the center of the spindle, I need to pull the chuck to get a better look, doesn't want to move.

    As for the Jacobs, I have all but 1 of the collets from 3/8" to 1-3/8", not sure yet how to change the collets out.

    I didn't post this earlier, but I hope this is the id number
    1025201629.jpg

    Thank you again!

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    Your lathe is from 1947. That style serial started that year, that's why there are only 4 digits before the letters. Info here:
    South Bend Lathe Co.

    Serial number list here, scroll to 1947. You would fit in between 4/8/1947, and 5/15/1947:
    South Bend Lathe Serial Numbers

    If you want a copy of your original serial card, get it here:
    Serial Card for South Bend Lathe - Grizzly.com

    If you do get it, post your serial and lathe info, and a copy of card to Steve Wells data base here:
    Serial Numbers Wanted

    The spindle, do you think its a collet closer shaft inside or what ? Is it hollow or solid ? Does it go all the way through, or only in taper on chuck side ?


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