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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    You cannot go wrong going slow by removing only one peel per try. The peels are two I think, and there's a 0.001 that you
    add or subtract.

    The lift test is easy, apply downward force until the dial gage stops moving. It's pretty obvious when you overcome the oil film. Zero
    the dial, then lift, again until the dial stops moving. I've never had to push real hard for this.
    Good advice and well taken. After all I have been through trying to fix this lathe going slow is a good idea.

    I really hope it will run great at all speeds when we get done.

    Forgot to add the following, picture of the rear bearing polished out. 20210529_164746.jpg


    Can you tell me the purpose of this tool? MT with a roller bearing on the end??


    20210602_144901.jpg20210602_144914.jpg20210602_144925.jpg


    All the photos turned 180* out

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    Not sure about the tool. Could be part of a live center for the tailstock.

    I will quote the Ilion repair manual.

    208. Place a 2 foot by 1” soft metal bar into the spindle (brass or equivalent). Push down on bar and zero your indicator. Lift up the bar WITH APPROXIMATELY 75LBS of force and note the reading. (.0007min to .0010max) if the clearance is out of this range then add/remove a .0015 shim from ONE SIDE of the bearing cap ONLY!. And re-test clearance.


    DO NOT USE WOOD AMD DONT USE LESS FORCE THEN 75LBS.

    iLion wrote the manual and have taken NUMEROUS lathes down to nuts/bolts in order to write the book they sell. I would heed the advice of them before anyone else aside from a vintage southbend engineer but I hear those guys are hard to find now a days.

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    image.jpg

    image.jpg

    image.jpg

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    Make sure you remove ONE SHIM at a time Alternating from in-board to out-board shim pack. Keep the in-board and out-board stacks equal within (1) shim.

    TAKE YOUR TIME, go slow and double check.

    A steal bar could damage your taper, I would wrap a layer of paper around the steal bar or maybe a layer of scotch tape to prevent damage to the spindle taper

    The 180° pics just happen, I can’t tell why and so far no one else has told me why either, you can flip them 180° on your computer and save them flipped THEN load them to correct the issue but that’s flaky too as they still can end up randomly flipped.

    We all just do a head stand to view the pics when needed, keeps the blood flow fresh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrewblob View Post
    Not sure about the tool. Could be part of a live center for the tailstock.

    I will quote the Ilion repair manual.

    208. Place a 2 foot by 1” soft metal bar into the spindle (brass or equivalent). Push down on bar and zero your indicator. Lift up the bar WITH APPROXIMATELY 75LBS of force and note the reading. (.0007min to .0010max) if the clearance is out of this range then add/remove a .0015 shim from ONE SIDE of the bearing cap ONLY!. And re-test clearance.


    DO NOT USE WOOD AMD DONT USE LESS FORCE THEN 75LBS.

    iLion wrote the manual and have taken NUMEROUS lathes down to nuts/bolts in order to write the book they sell. I would heed the advice of them before anyone else aside from a vintage southbend engineer but I hear those guys are hard to find now a days.
    I have the iLion manual that covers my lathe. My lathe experience is nothing compared to the lifelong

    career machinist that answer these posts. If the topic was welding, instructing, inspecting I could

    hold my own. Not wanting to argue or disagree since I'm a newbie or saying something that

    would piss you all off and then never get any support or answers for some of questions I ask trying to learn

    something new. The truth of the matter is in black and white in the booklet describing how iLion would go

    about it. Thanks for pointing it out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrewblob View Post
    Make sure you remove ONE SHIM at a time Alternating from in-board to out-board shim pack. Keep the in-board and out-board stacks equal within (1) shim.

    TAKE YOUR TIME, go slow and double check.

    A steal bar could damage your taper, I would wrap a layer of paper around the steal bar or maybe a layer of scotch tape to prevent damage to the spindle taper

    The 180° pics just happen, I can’t tell why and so far no one else has told me why either, you can flip them 180° on your computer and save them flipped THEN load them to correct the issue but that’s flaky too as they still can end up randomly flipped.

    We all just do a head stand to view the pics when needed, keeps the blood flow fresh
    Maybe that's all I need is to do some head stands and get the grey matter working again lol

    I'll try the picture turning as you suggested, I guess it's too late to go back and edit them now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenlee52 View Post
    Maybe that's all I need is to do some head stands and get the grey matter working again lol

    I'll try the picture turning as you suggested, I guess it's too late to go back and edit them now.
    Use sharpie marker and tally marks on a paper or the bearing caps to keep track of what side your pulling shims from.

    I just noticed I spelled steel as “steal” twice! I need to do a few headstands myself..

    Ilion says to stretch the wicks from the ends to “shrink” they diameter of them if needed, don’t tear them down the middle like a hot dog bun and don’t file the vee!

    Don’t worry about the pics, we see it so often it’s of no consequence.

    I’m am NOT a professional, I am a hobbyist as well.

    I followed the ilion manual and got my bearing to factory specs, runs at top speed for hours without issue but the bearings do get quite warm.

    You don’t have to worry about pissing anyone off for the most part, no ones perfect and we all make mistakes.

    No biggie.










    Unless it’s a scammer. they can jump off a cliff for all we care, actually we’d rather they did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrewblob View Post
    Use sharpie marker and tally marks on a paper or the bearing caps to keep track of what side your pulling shims from.

    I just noticed I spelled steel as “steal” twice! I need to do a few headstands myself..

    Ilion says to stretch the wicks from the ends to “shrink” they diameter of them if needed, don’t tear them down the middle like a hot dog bun and don’t file the vee!

    Don’t worry about the pics, we see it so often it’s of no consequence.

    I’m am NOT a professional, I am a hobbyist as well.

    I followed the ilion manual and got my bearing to factory specs, runs at top speed for hours without issue but the bearings do get quite warm.

    You don’t have to worry about pissing anyone off for the most part, no ones perfect and we all make mistakes.

    No biggie.










    Unless it’s a scammer. they can jump off a cliff for all we care, actually we’d rather they did.
    I appreciate what you said and I hope no one takes offensive to anything I say or ask. If you are going to

    do some additional headstands you might as well do the lashes while you are at it. I liked the Maybelline

    but my wife didn't think much of it, maybe jealous, who knows.

    I will say one thing seriously though, I feel a lot more confident putting my lathe back together because of

    all the conversation from the Forum and good advice. I'm actually pretty good mechanically but since all the

    surgeries and issues I don't seem to be as sharp as I was actually I have to read or go through things

    hands-on to get it now. Not making excuses because it still works out in the long run. I honestly can't wait

    till Monday to start working on the bearing issues again. I had a lot of questions answered and a lot of my

    own questions I answered myself going through the problems I thought I had. I have a much better outlook on

    my SB 13" and how it works because of this Forum and the members. I believe that when I assembly it back it

    will run the way it should at all speeds. There might have been some kind of damage to the original spindle

    compared to the great second hand one I bought from a fellow hobbyist who sold it from a running lathe

    because he wanted a D1-4 spindle. The only thing I haven't bought is a bar to set the lift up with. My bar

    is 1-1/2" diameter. I can't make up my mind if I still want to sell it or not. If it's running great I can

    always leave documentation to my wife and son to give them an idea what it is worth RUNNING. Of course no

    one knows when it's their time to leave this world and I'm sure I'm not alone with all I have endured with

    my issues and there are many times I don't think I can go much longer but I can't give up and be a coward I

    have to keep moving forward by God's Grace. Bottom line, this Forum and it's members have turned things

    around for me. If it doesn't run like it should this time I know there is an answer or a method to try and

    correct it. Many Thanks

    BYW we all knew what you meant with Steal and Steel, do the headstands anyway

    I keep good notes when taking or adding shims, it is good advice for anyone doing this.

    I totally agree what you said about scammers, if I had a cliff I would join you throwing them off.
    Last edited by Greenlee52; 06-06-2021 at 08:02 PM.

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    How old are you boss? I was born 92 so I’m hoping I get as much time on this world as many here have. My family line usually doesn’t make it past 60. Cancer/heart disease/working hazards, the works.

    I read a post from back around 2005 from a well respected gentleman on here, I’ll paraphrase what I can

    “I’m going to another funeral, fellow classmate from HS.”
    “Sometimes I think We’re the lucky ones, the survivors”

    He went on to question if “surviving” was indeed the lucky ones or not.
    He passed away a few years later.

    Life is what you make of it, it goes by quick so as they say

    Stop to smell the roses.

    You’ll do fine, these lathes are like ww2 Sherman tanks, rusted/busted and full of holes, wash the last crew out and put it back in service.

    Too tight is a problem, too loose will run just fine.

    I suggest you get it to a clearance around .0015-.0020 and make a few chips.

    Once your confidence and understanding is high you’ll have no problem squeezing out a few more tenths from the bearings.

    Good luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrewblob View Post
    How old are you boss? I was born 92 so I’m hoping I get as much time on this world as many here have. My family line usually doesn’t make it past 60. Cancer/heart disease/working hazards, the works.

    I read a post from back around 2005 from a well respected gentleman on here, I’ll paraphrase what I can

    “I’m going to another funeral, fellow classmate from HS.”
    “Sometimes I think We’re the lucky ones, the survivors”

    He went on to question if “surviving” was indeed the lucky ones or not.
    He passed away a few years later.

    Life is what you make of it, it goes by quick so as they say

    Stop to smell the roses.

    You’ll do fine, these lathes are like ww2 Sherman tanks, rusted/busted and full of holes, wash the last crew out and put it back in service.

    Too tight is a problem, too loose will run just fine.

    I suggest you get it to a clearance around .0015-.0020 and make a few chips.

    Once your confidence and understanding is high you’ll have no problem squeezing out a few more tenths from the bearings.

    Good luck!
    I was born April 1952. My career was Boilermaker, Pipe welder, Fabricator and a few more credits to my name.

    In 2005 I had a lower back fusion that left me with Adhesive Arachnoiditis, a terrible and painful disease

    from a doctor who got frustrated during surgery and got rough with me trying to push rods through me.

    Inflamed my nerve roots leaving hollow places up and down my spine. Actually killing my leg muscles and

    nerves. This goes up my back a good ways. Then in 2019 a 2nd neck fusion. The doctor removed the top plates

    from the first fusion and it broke apart after a few months and the screws broke in the new plates. What a

    mess. 24 surgeries later with 18 being major and I need 2 new shoulder joints but I am afraid to go in the

    hospital at this time. My whole body pain never stops. My fatigue and muscle weakness is killing me. It is

    what it is. I'll be praying for you to have a long healthy life. I look around at our wonderful veterans and

    what they deal with and it makes me ashamed to say anything. God bless and thank you for the survivor story,

    it's a eye-opener. My personal believe is we will be in a much better place with our loved

    ones and friends. I am going to smell the roses maybe put a big vase over the lathe while

    making chips. You're a great bunch of machinist

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    This is really crazy to ask, I have really lost my mind today. For the life of me I can't find or locate

    anything to create a new post. I can't figure it out. No, I'm not on drugs at the moment. Maybe that would

    help lol.

    Does anyone know or can advise if I need to do any special preparations on the laminated shim packs?? Heat

    them in water to make them come apart easier?? Do I need to tighten them under the bearing caps as best I

    can? Meaning my Allen Head Screws on my lathe will strip out if over-tightened. Rear inboard screw only has

    a 1/4" of thread holding it. Leave it alone or drill and tap deeper??

    Anybody seem my Prevagen I've seemed to have misplaced it as well.

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    I would hand drill and tap deeper if really needed, I’m not sure on the holding strength on 1/4” of threads. You will need to tighten the cap screws down tight but not too tight. I did mine by hand and didn’t need any extra leverage.

    Since you had home made shims in between the expanders and stripped cap bolts I would have to assume who ever originally worked on the bearings knew absolutely nothing about how these lathes work.

    I would tap as deep as the original threads, use studs not bolts and turned down spacers to fit the cap screw recess, maybe you could use stacked washers to fit inside the cap head recess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrewblob View Post
    I would hand drill and tap deeper if really needed, I’m not sure on the holding strength on 1/4” of threads. You will need to tighten the cap screws down tight but not too tight. I did mine by hand and didn’t need any extra leverage.

    Since you had home made shims in between the expanders and stripped cap bolts I would have to assume who ever originally worked on the bearings knew absolutely nothing about how these lathes work.

    I would tap as deep as the original threads, use studs not bolts and turned down spacers to fit the cap screw recess, maybe you could use stacked washers to fit inside the cap head recess.
    I guess it's hard to say what a 1/4" of thread will hold. One reason I tapped as deep as I could and replaced

    all the 1-1/2" Allen Head Screws with 1-3/4" length screws. Using a threaded stud with lock tight is a great

    idea. There is a lot of give in the Allen Head Screws, when you are tight and loosen it doesn't slowly get

    untighten it seems to just disengage and become loose all the way.

    The old machinist that originally owned the lathe put the 3 shim spacers on top of the front expander. I

    wrote down the thickness of the rear shims and they were absolutely pathetic in shape and thickness. I went

    back and got the correct measurement of shims each side but estimated from memory on my first or second

    thread. The rear inboard shim thickness was 0.028 and the rear outboard was 0.014, a good bit out of specs

    according to ILion recommendations. The front was out a good way too but I would have to go and pull the

    shims out to get an accurate measurement. The front bearing worked great regardless of old or new spindle.

    I don't use any leverage when tightening the bearing caps, only the Allen Wrench. I'll see if I can go deeper

    or not without causing any damage to the headstock. Thanks for the reply and advice.

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    Okay, I climbed over the top of the crib and was able to get my spindle back in the lathe. I had to file the shims where the alignment pins go through since they were too small. All 4 shim packs measure at 0.032. I bought a 1.125" x 24" round 360 brass bar to lift with. I have a scale setup to hold it for at least 20 seconds as recommended in the ILion booklet. I am using my engine lift with a endless sling to lift with so it can be held in place. I will take a picture of each end throughout the adjustments. I'm going slow for my benefit and slow so I don't miss anything or screw up anything. I might rent my new bar and scale out to others or maybe I can turn some chips of brass seeing what I can make out of it. lol
    Right now it spins several times before stopping. Very smooth but it should be with as much clearance that the spindle has at the moment. I honestly believe that this is going to come out great this time around.

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    You’ll do fine, remember loose is better then tight.

    I would check spindle play right now with your lifting rig.

    If it’s even .0025 I would turn the beast on and cut a few chips to look for chatter and surface finish, granted your not going to build nasa parts with it

    But it may very well make good chips and totally usable parts!

    It’s always a pep me up when you get to hear them chips hit the pan for the first time!! (Or floor in your case)

    Enjoy it and then when ready tighten it up some more.

    Or go for broke and get it in spec the first go around. the risk/reward is your opinion, not anyone else’s.

    Be Comfortable and remember paint up/rubber down,. Errrr uhhh, I mean have fun!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrewblob View Post
    You’ll do fine, remember loose is better then tight.

    I would check spindle play right now with your lifting rig.

    If it’s even .0025 I would turn the beast on and cut a few chips to look for chatter and surface finish, granted your not going to build nasa parts with it

    But it may very well make good chips and totally usable parts!

    It’s always a pep me up when you get to hear them chips hit the pan for the first time!! (Or floor in your case)

    Enjoy it and then when ready tighten it up some more.

    Or go for broke and get it in spec the first go around. the risk/reward is your opinion, not anyone else’s.

    Be Comfortable and remember paint up/rubber down,. Errrr uhhh, I mean have fun!
    I am so pleased with the way it turns right now. I'm going to check it every time I adjust the shim clearance and record it with additional pictures. I

    will also run the lathe on power to record the bearing heat and how long it took to get hot. It might be overboard but with all the conversation back

    and forth questions I don't want to leave anything out. The best possible result will be it helps another Hobbyist or Newbie or a Aluminum

    Member. I had 4 injections today to get me through until I have my left shoulder joint replaced, just what I needed to get me moving. I can't lift my

    lathe chuck without the engine lift unless I use 1" bar stock in a 5C collet, don't know if it would produce the same results you mentioned??

    I also think by taking baby steps if there is an issue it will show up front quickly for all to see and discuss how to correct it. Nothing will get past all

    of this documentation. Every member of this Forum has been great in helping me learn more about about my lathe and the maintenance required

    to keep it Trimmed. You had to rub it in about now having a chip pan, that's okay because I'll have a running lathe throwing chips all over the floor.

    I know what you mean about having fun, thanks. As long as I have good results working my way down the lift test, when I get close to where it

    should I might put the chuck back on to see if it makes a difference. If you think it should be on any way please let me know. I can work it out with

    the engine lift and it doesn't make any difference how long it takes, move slow and be deliberate. More to come.

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    I don’t remember off hand but I’m pretty sure they chuck should be removed for the lift tests.

    If I was you and you get a good reading (like 3 in a row!) I would slap the chuck on and turn some mystery metal into chips.

    My sb10L ate up an old knock off socket I had in the toolbox junk drawer, was fun even tho that lathe was nearly scrap itself.

    Wait until you try threading for the first time!

    I didn’t know my head from my ass threading but had a real fun time chasing my threads…

    And then I buried my cemented carbide threading tool!

    I quickly reversed the lathe and the tool came back but the carbide didn’t!!

    But hey, now I got a nice single tooth gear hob

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrewblob View Post
    I don’t remember off hand but I’m pretty sure they chuck should be removed for the lift tests.

    If I was you and you get a good reading (like 3 in a row!) I would slap the chuck on and turn some mystery metal into chips.

    My sb10L ate up an old knock off socket I had in the toolbox junk drawer, was fun even tho that lathe was nearly scrap itself.

    Wait until you try threading for the first time!

    I didn’t know my head from my ass threading but had a real fun time chasing my threads…

    And then I buried my cemented carbide threading tool!

    I quickly reversed the lathe and the tool came back but the carbide didn’t!!

    But hey, now I got a nice single tooth gear hob
    Yes Sir the chuck needs to be removed every time you perform a lift test that's why I was thinking of using collets, a 1" to play with. I agree with you

    on getting a good close reading several time in a row and as long has it's not getting hot on the rear bearing running all 3 speeds I'd be a happy

    camper. Could you share with us on the Forum a little about the lathe you currently own? I'm reading all about threading when I can, I would do it

    the old fashion way and have a nut nearby to test it with then I saw the charts and measurements using 3 wires depending on thread size. I want to

    learn it the correct way. At least you were able to salvage something out of the brazed carbide. Everybody needs at least one gear hob lol

    I hope TexasGunMetal knows we are doing all of this double spacing for his tired old eyes. I bet he can't even enjoy seeing his assistant in Shop

    Uniform. If it helps him read better than it's not a problem.

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    Here’s my thread when I first got my sb16. It was a fun experience and got me addicted to rust/Oil and old cast iron!

    New to me southbend 16x87 Need some help

    I space the paragraphs for anyone reading, myself included.
    I don’t have any diagnosis but when I look at white paper with black type or dark writing I get bad white spots in the center of my vision to the point I can’t read the words.

    For some reason the screen on my phone or computer doesn’t cause it as bad as note book paper.

    I see you sent me a friend request but I can’t accept it on Mobil so it’ll take a little while for me to accept it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenlee52 View Post

    I hope TexasGunMetal knows we are doing all of this double spacing for his tired old eyes. I bet he can't even enjoy seeing his assistant in Shop

    Uniform. If it helps him read better than it's not a problem.
    I figured you were being funny and trolling me. I'm not that blind. I just need the right glasses.

    56.jpg

    You don't need to double space every sentence. Just some paragraphs, with maybe a space between paragraphs. I was trying to read posts #1 and #8, and re-reading to be sure I understood, and trying to find my place in the middle was crushing my head.

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