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  1. #121
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    I’m still using the SB16 as that’s the only lathe I’ve got!

    I’m far far from a professional machinist, I don’t know about Tex but I’m a hobbyist myself, Tex is a cool Kat and he’s definitely been around the block more then I have by a long shot.

    I just really love the old southbends, personally I would rather a south bend lathe over a monarch 10EE, after all you wouldn’t give a hillbilly a rolls Royce Would you!? Haha.

    The more advanced/cutting edge machines are too far above my abilities that they would go unused for the most part, I bought my mill and lathe for my automotive projects and a gun build here and there.

    Before long I was (and still am) addicted to building my machine shop capabilities.

    I don’t use the machines to turn a buck, I do occasionally shoehorn a profitable use into my day job using the machines but never have I made direct profit off the machines themselves.

    I have a 12” adjust-tru buck 6 jaw scroll chuck that I can remove 3 jaws to use as a 3 jaw scroll, I’ve also bought an imported 12” 4 jaw independent chuck that I have no complaints against.

    I forget to mention; a seen a fellow PM member told you about brazing carbide onto shanks to use as tooling?

    I tried to go that route and the black flux and braze was VERY COST PROHIBITIVE for me, maybe a professional could make it work but for a hobby guy to use on some tooling here and there was not worth it, so look up “what to use” and “where to find it” and “minimum order size” before going down that route yourself.

    This is one addictive hobby but hey, isn't the best things in life addictive in general!?

    And as for your memory,

    When your young you soak things up like a new sponge.

    When your old that sponge gets hard/dry, it doesn’t soak things up as fast as it used to but it will soon enough.

    Get your sponge wet again friend, it’ll be back to it’s former glory soon enough

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  3. #122
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    With a South Bend its kind of hard to over power it. You're limited with the flat belt. Even a wider belt of 3 step pulley can only pull so much power before it slips. Is that belt wide enough to hold for a true 3hp ? I don't know without running tests, but my guess is no.

    A gear driven spindle on the other hand can be driven harder till motor bogs down, or you break something. In part limited by vee belts from motor, but if all belts are on, good and tight, it'll go the distance.

    Brazed carbide and insert type do benefit from higher speed if your cutting aggressively. But if you take your time and your depth of cut is not too deep, then they do fine. I kind of go slow easy with everything and I personally do better with those than I do with HSS.

    The square at end of lathe, between chip pan and bed ? Its just a pedestal that allow a chip pan to be longer than bed, without cutting holes in chip pan. If coolant were used, you'd want pan to hold that coolant, or cutting oil.

    A South Bend 2H is what I'm currently using. Its a 16" with a turret tail stock. I'm just wrapping up some maintenance and repair on a Bridgeport mill. I have several machines lined up for rebuilds, and my projects have projects . . . Its a great big time suck and takes forever, lol. But I'm about the restart a Monarch 61 Series 16" lathe project. A gear head lathe from 1956. I'll be going the whole way on it, bed grinding and scraping it all in. A pretty heavy project.

    I'm a little further along on the Bridgeport than I've had time to update thread. But it's here:
    Bridgeport Maintenance Funny Time

    I hope to wrap it up this week end actually. Current progress:

    95.jpg 96.jpg

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  5. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrewblob View Post
    I’m still using the SB16 as that’s the only lathe I’ve got!

    I’m far far from a professional machinist, I don’t know about Tex but I’m a hobbyist myself, Tex is a cool Kat and he’s definitely been around the block more then I have by a long shot.
    Machinist has never been in my job title. I'm more of an engine and gear box mechanic on commercial marine vessels. But I've done some machine work in relation to my job with line bores, boring blocks and such. Once upon a time I did cylinder head work with re-grinding head surfaces, grinding valves and seats. But the industry has moved away from that with exchanging cores now.

    Plus I've done a bit of alignment work in boats with wheel shaft to gear box, gear box to engine. The processes I find quite similar to aligning lathes, or even setting up work in a chuck where you're using indicators to work your way down to zero.

    On boats, from propeller to and through engine, it has to be a real straight line. Single digit .001"s on face and rim readings. If not, you get bending in the shafts, including engine crank shaft. That bending is called deflection. Too much deflection can cause shafts to crack and break. A little visual:

    77.jpg 78.jpg

    And heres a shaft that needs to get slid forward to gear box, and get alignment check:

    97.jpg

    Anyway machinist is not my regular job per se, but quite a bit is relative I think.

    Aside from that regular job, I started a business about a year ago. In it I have included my machine shop, but I do repairs and other industrial things too. It allows me to dump all my machine and tool expenses onto it for a write off, plus declare my earnings on what I do on the side. It earns a little, but I'm not quitting my job yet .

    I don't think that classifies me as a pro machinist, but I'm not too hung up on titles. Really my value and earning is more as a jack of all trades, verse specializing. But I lean toward mechanical and machine components, power generation, engines etc.

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  7. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrewblob View Post
    I’m still using the SB16 as that’s the only lathe I’ve got!

    I’m far far from a professional machinist, I don’t know about Tex but I’m a hobbyist myself, Tex is a cool Kat and he’s definitely been around the block more then I have by a long shot.

    I just really love the old southbends, personally I would rather a south bend lathe over a monarch 10EE, after all you wouldn’t give a hillbilly a rolls Royce Would you!? Haha.

    The more advanced/cutting edge machines are too far above my abilities that they would go unused for the most part, I bought my mill and lathe for my automotive projects and a gun build here and there.

    Before long I was (and still am) addicted to building my machine shop capabilities.

    I don’t use the machines to turn a buck, I do occasionally shoehorn a profitable use into my day job using the machines but never have I made direct profit off the machines themselves.

    I have a 12” adjust-tru buck 6 jaw scroll chuck that I can remove 3 jaws to use as a 3 jaw scroll, I’ve also bought an imported 12” 4 jaw independent chuck that I have no complaints against.

    I forget to mention; a seen a fellow PM member told you about brazing carbide onto shanks to use as tooling?

    I tried to go that route and the black flux and braze was VERY COST PROHIBITIVE for me, maybe a professional could make it work but for a hobby guy to use on some tooling here and there was not worth it, so look up “what to use” and “where to find it” and “minimum order size” before going down that route yourself.

    This is one addictive hobby but hey, isn't the best things in life addictive in general!?

    And as for your memory,

    When your young you soak things up like a new sponge.

    When your old that sponge gets hard/dry, it doesn’t soak things up as fast as it used to but it will soon enough.

    Get your sponge wet again friend, it’ll be back to it’s former glory soon enough
    You would have fooled me Homebrew, you are pretty sharp as well and seem to have pretty good knowledge and experience. You have passed

    along some good advice to me. Texasgun does have a cool background that definitely coincides with machining. His understanding of how

    mechanically parts work and come apart certainly produces some great rebuilds. I have worked in 2 different papermills, we aligned almost

    everything, that and Royal Purple. I kind of explained to Texasgun why I have some brainfog and confusion with memory. I'm going to go and lay

    down in a puddle next rain storm and soak it up. lol I appreciate what you said though. I certainly hope that others reading all of this will get some

    good results working on their lathes. I guess I talk too much at times but all I do is sit at home. I don't get out that much for various reasons and I

    really enjoy the conversation. I started out Oxy/Acetylene welding, it was part of my daily activities. In 1971 I worked at my wife's grandfather's

    welding and machine shop, this was in Clearwater, Florida. We would always get heads in from the charter boat business with huge holes or

    squares in them from where the salt water was piped in and directly hit the inside of the heads for cooling. Most averaged 4x4 or 4x6 in general.

    Of course there were other size areas wore completely out or completely through. I would take 1/4" brazing rod and bridge the worn areas across

    until I brazed it all up. If we had a piece of cast iron to insert we would use that but a piece of steel wouldn't last long in the salt water cooling as

    would the brazed area would. Also repaired propellers that were damaged. Had to be sent out after welding and be balanced again. The 3 pulley

    headstock was designed for a 1-1/2 HP motor from South Bend. To tell you the truth this lathe has not been run through the paces with this motor

    for me to know if it's too much or if it's a little weak. Something else I need to look into so I don't go burning up the new bearings. It does have a

    little whine in it but there doesn't seem to be any movement or play side to side or back and forth. I have to go out and run another lift test. I

    screwed up on the shims without thinking. I removed a .002 shim from the pack and added a .001 back to it. I forgot there was a .001 shim on the

    bottom side of the shim pack on the rear. I need to go do that and then add some comments to the other post below. Thanks again, I know I have

    said that a lot but this has been a long hard road. Is it difficult to post a short video?

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  9. #125
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    You can post a video to YouTube and then put the link in your comment.

    If you use the correct button on here when posting the link you will get a “preview image” of the video in question.

    Either was it’s got to be a video hosting site as this site doesn’t store videos per se

  10. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrewblob View Post
    You can post a video to YouTube and then put the link in your comment.

    If you use the correct button on here when posting the link you will get a “preview image” of the video in question.

    Either was it’s got to be a video hosting site as this site doesn’t store videos per se
    I saw the button up top beside the image button. I wanted to show the lathe running since I am in the finial lap and a short video to with making shim replacements one at a time. I am down to the wire now. The rear shim packs are both at .019 and the front are both at .018. This seems to be the average stopping point for others I have ask about shim thickness. It could change as soon as I do the lift test again. Why is there such a difference between how cool the larger front bearing operates compared to the smaller rear?? Can I remove the front gear that is pressed on tapping it with a lead hammer all the way around and not damage it? I saw where someone took a rubber mallet and removed one. I would like to look at the original spindle for any damage I can't see using the lathe to chuck it up. I ended up on the No Work List by my wife when I hurt myself the other day. It will be about a week before I'm back in action unless I can sneak a little time in when she goes off shopping. I want to get done with this.

  11. #127
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    My rear bearing gets pretty warm, my front bearing stays cool, no biggie.

    If your bearing is getting warm when running I would stop as that implies your darn close to target specs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Homebrewblob View Post
    My rear bearing gets pretty warm, my front bearing stays cool, no biggie.

    If your bearing is getting warm when running I would stop as that implies your darn close to target specs.
    I'm going to check it tomorrow if I can. Front and rear are close to where they should be without using additional shims. I hope it will stay this way. I agree, if it is a little warm while running then no big deal. On the right track.

  13. #129
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    I'm back in action again but with restrictions. I have a muscle head friend (LOL), no just kidding a good friend who has a couple of South Bend

    Lathes and a table top mill that was also a Boilermaker out of Local 112, Mobile Alabama. He will help with the physical tasks that I can't do anymore.

    I powered the 13" up and it ran fine on low speed and middle speed but choked on the fastest speed pretty quick. Right now the front is at .002"

    clearance and the rear is at .0039" clearance. It ran at all speeds except for 2 times when coming down the hill removing .002" shims from the new pack.

    My thoughts are to leave the front alone, it has not gotten hot, warm, lukewarm but has remained cool all the way down to .002" oil clearance.

    Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the front bearing take the majority of load? All of the weight loaded in the chuck? Two separate spindles and neither one ever got past being Cool on the front.

    Was this a defect from South Bend? I know, nobody has an answer for that one. Doesn't really matter either.

    So with the front at .002 oil clearance and the rear bearing at .0039 I was going to remove one .002" shims from either side and replace it with a .001" shim and take another reading.

    Working my way down to a decent setting that hopefully works at all speeds. Now I wonder if I'm making a mistake by selling it. I could document a specific package of tooling and accessories that would be sold with it if I were to get worse or something happen beyond my control and enjoy making chips and building small lathe projects.

    Like every lathe that is 61 years old I have some backlash and play in the carriage and cross feeds. I need a new ACME10 compound screw and some cleaning on the cross feed and half-nuts.

    I guess another reason I thought the Headstock and bearing caps were off a little is it would spin like a top working my way down through the shim peeling until I hit around .010" shim thickness.

    It stopped spinning like a top and started turning by hand with just a little resistance but nothing compared to how it was originally. I've seen other South Bend 13" Lathes on YouTube that spin several resolutions with a simple pull of the chuck.

    Somebody please pass me a roll of paper towels, these alligator tears are flooding the room. What about removing a .002" and replacing with a .001" and then test the results? Right direction or not??

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    With a South Bend its kind of hard to over power it. You're limited with the flat belt. Even a wider belt of 3 step pulley can only pull so much power before it slips. Is that belt wide enough to hold for a true 3hp ? I don't know without running tests, but my guess is no.

    A gear driven spindle on the other hand can be driven harder till motor bogs down, or you break something. In part limited by vee belts from motor, but if all belts are on, good and tight, it'll go the distance.

    Brazed carbide and insert type do benefit from higher speed if your cutting aggressively. But if you take your time and your depth of cut is not too deep, then they do fine. I kind of go slow easy with everything and I personally do better with those than I do with HSS.

    The square at end of lathe, between chip pan and bed ? Its just a pedestal that allow a chip pan to be longer than bed, without cutting holes in chip pan. If coolant were used, you'd want pan to hold that coolant, or cutting oil.

    A South Bend 2H is what I'm currently using. Its a 16" with a turret tail stock. I'm just wrapping up some maintenance and repair on a Bridgeport mill. I have several machines lined up for rebuilds, and my projects have projects . . . Its a great big time suck and takes forever, lol. But I'm about the restart a Monarch 61 Series 16" lathe project. A gear head lathe from 1956. I'll be going the whole way on it, bed grinding and scraping it all in. A pretty heavy project.

    I'm a little further along on the Bridgeport than I've had time to update thread. But it's here:
    Bridgeport Maintenance Funny Time

    I hope to wrap it up this week end actually. Current progress:

    95.jpg 96.jpg


    What a great looking Bridgeport you built. I'm reading the post but came back to compliment on your project and getting that part out. I honestly don't know how strong my motor is even rated at 3 HP. My static convertor only allows use of 2 HP supposedly. No telling how old the motor is.

    Would you test it with a meter? I was thinking of taking a sander and feathering the paint chips out and use a good thick primer to fill in and sand out to repaint. Of course I will tape all the steel that doesn't need paint. I didn't see any mention of how you cleaned the steel parts like the bed

    but It might be in the post you made and if it is I'll find it the more I read through it. You are certainly a talented Jack of all Trades as you put it but I would say a Journeymen that is highly trained in all aspects of mechanics, in short you do a tremendous job on everything. Thanks for putting the link in the comment. It helps me find what I'm searching for.

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  16. #131
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    If the chuck side cap is at .002" oil clearance, and the gear train side at .0039", I would never expect it to lock up. I'd personally like to see gear train side reduced from .0039" to .002". But that does not explain why it would lock up to me.

    You're not running with back gears engaged, and bull gear un-pinned are you ? I just ask because upper cone pulley needs its own lube and that could lock up.

    I have another question. I think on page one of this thread you said: "My motor turns 1725 RPMs
    and is a 3 phase 3 HP. My spindle speeds are 270, 497, and 940 RPMs direct drive from motor pulleys to the
    headstock pulleys."

    How did you get those rpm numbers ? Hand held tach, book/manual, or math based on pulley size ?

    Just a personal side note. My South Bend can turn a 1000 rpm. But I don't like running that top speed on that lathe. With all the open air gear trains of head stock and qcgb, it just sounds like its over-speeding to me. My preference for what I do on it is to keep the speeds between 300-600 rpm.

    If you can run all day long at those speeds of 300-600, then I might try that for a while.

  17. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenlee52 View Post
    What a great looking Bridgeport you built. I'm reading the post but came back to compliment on your project and getting that part out. I honestly don't know how strong my motor is even rated at 3 HP. My static convertor only allows use of 2 HP supposedly. No telling how old the motor is.

    Would you test it with a meter? I was thinking of taking a sander and feathering the paint chips out and use a good thick primer to fill in and sand out to repaint. Of course I will tape all the steel that doesn't need paint. I didn't see any mention of how you cleaned the steel parts like the bed

    but It might be in the post you made and if it is I'll find it the more I read through it. You are certainly a talented Jack of all Trades as you put it but I would say a Journeymen that is highly trained in all aspects of mechanics, in short you do a tremendous job on everything. Thanks for putting the link in the comment. It helps me find what I'm searching for.
    Thanks I appreciate it, I'm pretty happy with the result.

    How to know what hp you are pulling: You need an amp clamp or a way to read amps. Most regular multi-meters do not have an amp clamp as part of the meters body, but some do.

    121.jpg

    You would slip the amp clamp over one hot lead at a time. Measure the amps, it won't be exact, but all 3 hot legs should be close in amperage. Then use a volt, amp, and kw chart to figure out how many kw you are pulling:

    122.jpg

    1 kw equals about 1.34 hp, or you can use a calculator:
    Convert kW to hp - Conversion of Measurement Units

    You could also add a volt/amp meter to add to your own little electric box. It comes with its own CT to measure amps, the circle thing:
    Amazon.com: Volt Amp Meter, DROK AC 500V 200A Digital Voltmeter Ammeter Panel, 0.39 Inches LED 2in1 Multimeter, 2-Wire Voltage Amperage Tester Gauge with Current Transformer: Industrial & Scientific

    On cleaning and painting I did not mention in that thread, I don't think anyway . But for bright un-painted metal I shoot the metal and sandpaper/emery cloth with wd 40, and basically wet sand. I keep doing it till I get the desired result. Sometimes I use mineral spirits instead of wd 40.

    On painted surface, I always use mineral spirits. I scrub the "to be" painted surfaces very well. Before and after a light sanding. I final wipe down with acetone, then prime and paint.

    If old paint is in horrid shape I will scrape it away, wire wheel or whatever. The butt end of an old file makes a decent paint scraper. Just keep the end square, don't grind it to an angle. I'll also use body filler in areas that might have a big gouge or dent, but I'm to too obsessive about it.

  18. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    If the chuck side cap is at .002" oil clearance, and the gear train side at .0039", I would never expect it to lock up. I'd personally like to see gear train side reduced from .0039" to .002". But that does not explain why it would lock up to me.

    You're not running with back gears engaged, and bull gear un-pinned are you ? I just ask because upper cone pulley needs its own lube and that could lock up.

    I have another question. I think on page one of this thread you said: "My motor turns 1725 RPMs
    and is a 3 phase 3 HP. My spindle speeds are 270, 497, and 940 RPMs direct drive from motor pulleys to the
    headstock pulleys."

    How did you get those rpm numbers ? Hand held tach, book/manual, or math based on pulley size ?

    Just a personal side note. My South Bend can turn a 1000 rpm. But I don't like running that top speed on that lathe. With all the open air gear trains of head stock and qcgb, it just sounds like its over-speeding to me. My preference for what I do on it is to keep the speeds between 300-600 rpm.

    If you can run all day long at those speeds of 300-600, then I might try that for a while.

    Hey Texasgun, let me start with the first question. I have been trying to understand this my self for a long time. I can understand that the felt being shortened had a lot to do with the first go around. Also the way I did the shim stack. Peeling them off and ironing them out to reuse. What an idiot.

    The back gear was never engaged or the gear train. The speeds came from the South Bend Catalog that showed speeds depending on weather it's a 4 step pulley or a 3 step pulley spindle and lathe type.

    I took the motor information off the motor, 3 phase, 1725 RPMs. When I got down to a shim thickness of .020 that produced a oil clearance of .007 on the rear it started heating up more and not spinning as good.

    When I had the front bearing dialed in at .0008 it still ran cool as can be. The front bearing ended up at a little over .001" and still runs cool, hard to figure out.

    This was not on this session using new shim packs but prior when I was seeking help to figure it all out. What I said about the large front bearing being at .002" is where it's at now. I forgot to write down the shim thickness, I'll make note of it tomorrow for front and rear.

    I think right now I'm going to pull a .002" shim from either side of the rear and add a .001" shim back in place of the .002" then power it up and run the oil clearance test when I have some help.

    It's either that or pull .002" from each side and add one .001" back then run it. Not sure if I'm taking a bigger step then I need to. Thanks for explaining the paint routine and let me know what you think about pulling the shims out.

    This lathe must have been put through it at the Calumet Steel Casting plant it was bought for. Wish I had some idea what they did at this place.
    Last edited by Greenlee52; 07-11-2021 at 08:56 PM.

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    I'm curious what size diameter pulley on electric motor. The vee belt pulley. Also I'm not sure a 13's upper vee pulley diameter, on a 16" lathe, the upper pulley is 12" in diameter.

    I'm sure upper pulley is original, I just want to know its OD. When someone put 3hp motor in, I really don't know what OD of that pulley is. Maybe not a problem, but if you give those two OD numbers we can verify.

    Spindle clearance: Bottom line, if .002" on chuck side, and .0039" on gear train side. It should not get hot. I don't like .0039", but it should not get hot. I'd like to see gear train side to .002" as well.

    If all this changing shims and such, and still gets hot something else is wrong. I'm assuming the oil clearances you posted are correct, if that's right, do something else:

    This won't hurt anything, and may answer some questions.

    1. Remove spindle.

    2. Remove bearing from gear train side, that's the one getting hot right ?

    3. Put bearing into headstock without spindle. Tighten the cap as you normally would if assembling correctly, with bearing inside.

    4. Dead center of cap, or in align with bearing's oil trench, drill a hole all the way through cap and bearing, a 3/16" hole. At top of the hole decide if you want a 1/8" pipe plug, or 1/4" gits oiler. Drill and accommodate for that. Clean debris out very well. When you're finished it can look like this:

    21.jpg

    Mine is at 12 oclock because I don't have an expander. You do, so punch that hole at like 10-11 oclock of the bore.

    5. Take a pic so I can see felt and bearing with no spindle and cap tight.

    6. Post the pic before assembly, in case we see a detail.

    7. Assemble. Check/set clearances. Pump oil into newly drilled hole until oil level rises to top of the outside fill cup.

    8. Run it. If it starts getting hot, pump oil into the drilled hole. What happened ?


    Also I'm sure you mentioned it, but I forget. Which oil are you using ? If you're using spindle oil, change it for ATF. ATF is slightly heavier, but its slipperier . How's that for a word ? I had issues with spindle oil and spindle not rolling right. Same clearances, but with ATF spun very nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    I'm curious what size diameter pulley on electric motor. The vee belt pulley. Also I'm not sure a 13's upper vee pulley diameter, on a 16" lathe, the upper pulley is 12" in diameter.

    I'm sure upper pulley is original, I just want to know its OD. When someone put 3hp motor in, I really don't know what OD of that pulley is. Maybe not a problem, but if you give those two OD numbers we can verify.

    Spindle clearance: Bottom line, if .002" on chuck side, and .0039" on gear train side. It should not get hot. I don't like .0039", but it should not get hot. I'd like to see gear train side to .002" as well.

    If all this changing shims and such, and still gets hot something else is wrong. I'm assuming the oil clearances you posted are correct, if that's right, do something else:

    This won't hurt anything, and may answer some questions.

    1. Remove spindle.

    2. Remove bearing from gear train side, that's the one getting hot right ?

    3. Put bearing into headstock without spindle. Tighten the cap as you normally would if assembling correctly, with bearing inside.

    4. Dead center of cap, or in align with bearing's oil trench, drill a hole all the way through cap and bearing, a 3/16" hole. At top of the hole decide if you want a 1/8" pipe plug, or 1/4" gits oiler. Drill and accommodate for that. Clean debris out very well. When you're finished it can look like this:

    21.jpg

    Mine is at 12 oclock because I don't have an expander. You do, so punch that hole at like 10-11 oclock of the bore.

    5. Take a pic so I can see felt and bearing with no spindle and cap tight.

    6. Post the pic before assembly, in case we see a detail.

    7. Assemble. Check/set clearances. Pump oil into newly drilled hole until oil level rises to top of the outside fill cup.

    8. Run it. If it starts getting hot, pump oil into the drilled hole. What happened ?


    Also I'm sure you mentioned it, but I forget. Which oil are you using ? If you're using spindle oil, change it for ATF. ATF is slightly heavier, but its slipperier . How's that for a word ? I had issues with spindle oil and spindle not rolling right. Same clearances, but with ATF spun very nice.

    I can measure the motor pulley diameter in the morning. I don't have a clue if the diameters are in fact original from the factory. I went out and bought the 4 oils needed in gallon containers then shared half with a friend who owns 2 SB Lathes, a 9" and 10". In the Headstock I'm using Mobile 1 syn 0W-10 but I have plenty of 10 wt spindle oil as well.

    I think you are agreeing with me that the rear bearing or gear train side which is getting hot once again needs to be at .002". That was one reason I wanted to remove a .002" from one side or both or even remove a .002" and put a .001" in place to get the oil clearance to .002" before I

    start taking the spindle out again and putting the Oil Gits in. Should the new oil hole be drilled at 10 o'clock facing the operator standing at the controls?

    I'll take lots of pictures. Do you think if the motor pulley diameter is right that some how it is being starved of oil? With a gits in place do you have to pump constantly to keep it cool? Change it out for standard ATF?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenlee52 View Post
    I can measure the motor pulley diameter in the morning. I don't have a clue if the diameters are in fact original from the factory. I went out and bought the 4 oils needed in gallon containers then shared half with a friend who owns 2 SB Lathes, a 9" and 10". In the Headstock I'm using Mobile 1 syn 0W-10 but I have plenty of 10 wt spindle oil as well.

    I think you are agreeing with me that the rear bearing or gear train side which is getting hot once again needs to be at .002". That was one reason I wanted to remove a .002" from one side or both or even remove a .002" and put a .001" in place to get the oil clearance to .002" before I

    start taking the spindle out again and putting the Oil Gits in. Should the new oil hole be drilled at 10 o'clock facing the operator standing at the controls?

    I'll take lots of pictures. Do you think if the motor pulley diameter is right that some how it is being starved of oil? With a gits in place do you have to pump constantly to keep it cool? Change it out for standard ATF?
    By knowing the vee pulley diameters, we can see if you're over-speeding. We know some of the numbers of the equation already. 3 step pulley calls for 940rpm top spindle speed. Top spindle speed should be 2 times the speed of upper vee pulley. Motor you say is 1725 rpm. When you give me pulley OD's we use this calculator:
    Pulley Calculator. RPM, Belt Length, Speed, Animated Diagrams

    "centers" or "pulley centers" are for figuring belt length. Ignore that. Enter small pulley OD and 1725 rpm. Enter large pulley OD. Hit "calculate". Now look at large pulley rpm, that number times 2 should be top spindle speed.

    I don't mind if the drilled hole is slightly toward front or rear, either is ok. But it will tell us a few things. One, if oil enters drilled hole, and can fill outer oil cup that the passage is clear and can move oil. Two, by filling the cup I know oil level is correct. Top of oil cup should be level with bottom of spindle, or top of felt.

    As a secondary bonus, you can now pre-lube that journal before hitting the power button. Oil coming in at near top of spindle will guarantee lube on spindle/bearing surface.

    Another bonus, it will help us troubleshoot. Don't run top speed, but run a higher speed where its getting warm or hot. Will shooting some oil in begin relieving that ? If yes, I'm guessing oil related issue, be it felt, oil level, whatever.

    Even though 0w-10 is pretty light, I think its still too heavy for this spindle. I also personally believe spindle oil is too light.

    Spindle oil, DTE oils, and DTE Hydraulic oils come from the same base mineral oil stock. One difference is their weight class. Spindle oil is amoung the very lightest of those. Any ATF is fine, but out of habit I choose Dextron 3 and 4.

    If you want to jump down the oil rabbit hole there's a ton of info, and arguments on it here . One write up on it I did:
    Need some encouragement
    Last edited by texasgunsmith; 07-12-2021 at 02:12 PM.

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    Woah, I wouldn’t jump to drilling the cap just yet personally. If your bearing is getting hot/locking up then you have a big problem and it’s NOT *excessive oil clearance.

    I hate to say this but I think your readings are wrong.

    Also your keeping track of the shim thickness a little TOO much, the thickness of the shim packs is not important, what is important is the thickness of the shim packs stay nearly equal from inboard to outboard of the same bearing.

    Re take your clearance measurements using your lifting jig and see if you get repeatable results.

    I agree with Tex on verifying your spindle top speed, if someone overspeed your spindle then it will overheat and lock up.

    Are your expanders tight to the cap using the little screws under your pipe plugs?

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    This is the best I can do right now, no energy but I did get the dimensions so I'll leave them with you. I ran the ratios and I think the lathe is running too fast. I don't know how sensitive excessive RPM is on these type bearings as far as creating more heat. I have used the Pulley Calculator many

    times for some projects and I came up with top speed running at the lowest motor speed of 1728 rounded to 1730 rpms to high speed of 1752 rpm on the motor label. So it could be a range depending on current???

    I have a 24v tachometer to use with the VFD but I'll have to see how to wire it.

    The motor pulley 2 47/64"
    Large pulley 10 3/4" Under pulley Large 7.80" Medium 6.18" Small 4.34


    Spindle pulley Large 6 5/8" Medium 5" Small 3 1/4"



    I came up with 1036 rpms at the motor rpm or 1730 rpm. Did not estimate speed at the higher motor rpm 1752 rpm. Maybe I should go half way and use 1737 rpm


    I have more to say but it will be a week or so before I can get to it. Appreciate the help from everyone

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    1036 rpm is faster than the rated 940, which I would be aware of and watch. But not as terrible as turning like 1500.

    Your electric motor rpm is mostly dependent on cycles or HZ. In the USA we use 60hz on our AC electric, be it single or 3 phase. Without getting too complicated in explanation, motors will typically be rated in the 1200, 1800, and 3600 rpm ranges. Your motor being in the 1800 rpm range is about 30 rpm per cycle/hz.

    30 x 60hz = 1800rpm. By manipulating the hz you could raise or lower the motor's rated speed. 30 x 70hz = 2100rpm as example.

    A VFD helps you change single phase to 3 phase voltage. However, usually one of a VFD's features is to manipulate the HZ also. But I don't know what VFD you have or what type of controls it has.

    Just an fyi, voltage does not manipulate the motor speed.

    Current, or an easier way to think of it. . .think load or no load, can effect speed, but only a little, 4% max maybe ? Whether the motor is loaded and working, or no load and just spinning free the speeds will vary a little, but I would guess you are operating between 1730-1780 rpm at 60hz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    1036 rpm is faster than the rated 940, which I would be aware of and watch. But not as terrible as turning like 1500.

    Your electric motor rpm is mostly dependent on cycles or HZ. In the USA we use 60hz on our AC electric, be it single or 3 phase. Without getting too complicated in explanation, motors will typically be rated in the 1200, 1800, and 3600 rpm ranges. Your motor being in the 1800 rpm range is about 30 rpm per cycle/hz.

    30 x 60hz = 1800rpm. By manipulating the hz you could raise or lower the motor's rated speed. 30 x 70hz = 2100rpm as example.

    A VFD helps you change single phase to 3 phase voltage. However, usually one of a VFD's features is to manipulate the HZ also. But I don't know what VFD you have or what type of controls it has.

    Just an fyi, voltage does not manipulate the motor speed.

    Current, or an easier way to think of it. . .think load or no load, can effect speed, but only a little, 4% max maybe ? Whether the motor is loaded and working, or no load and just spinning free the speeds will vary a little, but I would guess you are operating between 1730-1780 rpm at 60hz.
    It's unfortunate I can't get it right on the money. For me to get the exact measurements I have to lay on the floor in the garage, it kills me and I will not do well for several days after. It's still a guessing game, no exact motor RPMs but a range. I don't know much about HZ and such either. can

    you plug in the pulleys and see what RPMs you come up with?? Maybe next week I can pull the motor pulley off and get a good measurement on it. I can control the HZ or add on options like a emergency OFF, reverse, instant reverse and so forth. Excellent video by George Bell and the

    restoration of his 80s model South Bend Lathe 13" from top to bottom. He shows the motor control hookup and it is impressive what he does with the VFD. Just look for George Bell on YouTube.

    Before I can make any additional decisions I need to get the oil clearance to .002" like the front bearing. If it still locks up then there is bigger mess to deal with like I have been saying all a long. The only reason I took so long to get the new shim pack peeled off is it was advised that I do

    it this way. I am sorry that I have dragged all of this post and threads downhill. For one I talk too much and I try to give too much detail of what's going on. Most would not be interested in anything other than did it work or not. I'll try and improve on the next subject if there is one.


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