South Bend 13 price?

TLoud · Dec 30, 2021

Found a South Bend 13 by me that has a VFD and looks to be in great shape. The guy is asking $1900 for it. This is his description:
"South bend 13” lathe. Has a VFD drive that plugs into any 120v outlet. Stainless hardware. Newer felts and Gits oil cups. Back gear reduction is not installed because the vfd allows the spindle to go down to 0 rpm- but I have the parts for it. Any questions- please ask. Cash only. " This is my first time looking at buying a lathe. Does this seem like a fair price? What should I be looking for? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

jcollings · Dec 30, 2021

Looks pretty nice,

Look for any heavy wear on the wayes, on the bottom of the tail stock, play in the cross feed and compound. Look for any broken gear teeth. Good luck!

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johnoder · Dec 30, 2021

Real old with that 2 TPI on the QC gear box - like 85 years

Means small spindle bore and 1 7/8 - 8 spindle nose, so no 5C collets without investing in a collet chuck

1 7/8 - 8 spindle nose just makes it harder to acquire additional spindle tooling - like chucks

SLK001 · Dec 30, 2021

Depends on the tooling included. Also, just because the VFD can go down to 0 RPM doesn't mean that it will have the torque to do anything useful. The back gears are just torque multipliers. And what hardware is "stainless"?

TDegenhart · Dec 30, 2021

No GITS oiler for the spindle, factory hardware looks to have been replaced with cap screws, the threading plate is off of a newer machine as are the crossfeed and compound dials.

It is possible that the machine was rebuilt in the not to distant past. But to what? Rattle can and new hardware or rescraping and refitting? Asking price might be reasonable if it is more than rattle can and with tooling. If just what is pictured, I wouldn't pay it.

You really need someone familiar with these machines to look it over, not just a few pictures.

Tom

Rudd · Dec 30, 2021

As above, motors loose torque when you slow them down with a VFD. If you are cutting something large in diameter, this means you will not be able to take heavy cuts. VFD's are nice for "fine tuning" between the steps on the pulleys.
Quick and dirty checks for bed wear:
Is there a ridge you can catch a fingernail on on the front way near the chuck?
Maybe the seller filed the ridge away.
Set carriage near chuck. Lightly tighten carriage lock bolt so the carriage will slide. Now move the carriage to the right. If it tightens up and won't slide, that indicates bed wear.
Having said that, I have a '41 13" with a ridge, I can get to sub .001 tolerances if I need to, especially over short distances.
If you do the trig, your cutter dropping a few thou is not going to make a bunch of difference in your depth of cut.
Adventures With Klunkers
Advice on buying a Lathe

mattthemuppet · Dec 30, 2021

weird about the back gear, can't really see the point of removing it but if the parts are there then it's not a big deal. Deal breakers for me are broken teeth on the gears and missing parts. Wear, not so much. A bigger consideration is tooling. If that's all it comes with you can easily spend 50-100% again on tooling.

TLoud · Dec 30, 2021

Thanks for all the replies guys I appreciate it. I'm a knife maker and hobbyist and looking to get my first lathe. A big plus would be a lathe capable of gunsmithing down the road. It's something I've always wanted to get into. I'm sure there are better options out there but am I on the right track with something like this or what do you suggest? The $2k and under range is really what I'm looking at considering the cost of tooling and I'm also looking at buying my first mill.

edit: I'm assuming all that comes with this is whats pictured so no tooling whatsoever.

TLoud · Dec 30, 2021

Rudd said:
If you do the trig, your cutter dropping a few thou is not going to make a bunch of difference in your depth of cut.
Adventures With Klunkers
Advice on buying a Lathe

Thank you for the links!

Rudd · Dec 30, 2021

See John's comment above re the spindle. The spindle has a 1" through hole. You may find this limiting. The 1 7/8" x 8" tooling is hard to find, I make my own backplates, I was lucky to find a full size 10" faceplate and a dog driver plate, tho these could be made on top of a self made backplate.
As hinted at above, why would someone go to the trouble of removing the back gears when they could have the same result with less work by just not using them? I'm betting there was a good reason they were removed, broken teeth or something else.

Your other question, I gave 1300 for my lathe with a chuck and a lantern post mebbe 15 years ago.

Kevin T · Dec 30, 2021

I am not the right guy to tell you what to do but I like that removable chip tray they made. Looks like you slide out the pan to dump the chips. I am not a fan of how they painted over the handles on the saddle or the area on the gearbox front where the holes are to select a gear. I don't know much about adding VFD's to old machinery but hopefully someone can comment on no back gears? That doesn't seem optimal to me that is 1/2 of the available spindle speeds that are driven by regulating the electricity to the motor? Do I have that right? Back gears can be a noisy affair so maybe there is a silver lining in that it is quieter to run low speeds but you are going to loose some torque. I guess the good thing is that if the machine is solid you can always find the parts you need over time and return it to stock. Also I am sure they must have some other goodies to go with the thing if they did that much to it but you'll have to ask.

Tony Quiring · Dec 30, 2021

Vfd is nice and rpm can go slow but you go slow for 2 reasons.

Threading which may not need torque or heavy cut that needs high motor low spindle.

Check them and play dentist, check teeth.

Out 14.5 has 2 hp motor with 3 h VFD and can do rpm to mpr with back gear and you will not stop it, the belt slips sometimes, needs replacement.

He took out back gear for a reason.

Has gits on top and not on side so not likely a supply of oil but someone who has one of these can address that.

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MeanMachine1980 · Dec 30, 2021

That is a nice lathe a Oldie for sure. I would probably keep my eyes out for a newer model with a different spindle and gear box. The newer models also have "flame hardened" ways and usually D1-4 chucks which great compared to other options.

The VFD is also very handy for running those 3 phase motors. You still have the options to change the speed of the lathe with the belts. The most useful thing the VFD can do is quickly reverse the spindle direction for tapping. The option to gain some more speed on the fly is also great when trying to get the best finishes.

I have a southbend 13 that I restored and added a vfd control box with a jog function. Speed, forward and reverse and of course a E-stop. I cant imagine running the old 13 without it.

PS I haven't had to use the back gears yet. I have never had a threading operation where I needed that much torque..
I'm wondering if his bracket for his VFD has something to do with why he doesn't have the back gear installed. From the pics the back gear is installed on the step pully. and his bracket is very close to where the eccentric shaft goes to actuate the back gears. might be worth a question and another pic.

TLoud · Dec 30, 2021

MeanMachine1980 said:
That is a nice lathe a Oldie for sure. I would probably keep my eyes out for a newer model with a different spindle and gear box. The newer models also have "flame hardened" ways and usually D1-4 chucks which great compared to other options[/url]

Thanks MeanMachine Options seem pretty limited in my area but I'm in no hurry so I'll just have to keep looking. I was debating on buying a new grizzly but everything seems to point me to old used steel.. just need to wait for the right one to pop up.

MeanMachine1980 · Dec 30, 2021

I just noticed you are in MN. Look at interplant sales in Hugo they have a couple newer southbend 13's. They are however double the price..
I bought one a few years back for around $800 off craigslist. I had to stick a little over a couple grand into it and a few months to get it to where I wanted though.

MeanMachine1980 · Dec 30, 2021

Yes That is what drove me in the first place to get the old iron as well. The whisper quiet cutting is also nice

Heavy and big as hell.
I do keep looking at the newer taiwan lathes from Precision Matthews though. the old 13 is kinda a pain to chamber barrels being the headstock is so long. And with the lathe you are looking at the bed looks to be on the short side. Keep looking something will come up.

TLoud · Dec 30, 2021

Thanks man! Is a 13 overkill? I know bigger is better but would I be better suited for something smaller? I really only looked at this 13 cause its the only decent looking lathe I've seen pop up in this price range? I'm watching auctions too and have seen some Encos and other newer lathes that looked heavily worn go for a bit more. I just dont know enough about them to really know what to pull the trigger on. It seems everyone says American used old steel is the way to go if you can find the right one. I built a 24x30 shop last year in my back yard and want to get serious about metal working (as of now knife making, forging, motorcycles, and I just generally love having the tools to make my own stuff and push my skills further) Nothing production wise just as a hobby for now, but would love to be able to push it further. Again I appreciate your help!

edit: I'm 33 and know I have a hell of a lot to learn!

mattthemuppet · Dec 30, 2021

to be honest a suboptimal lathe you have now is better than not having a lathe at all. It's a reasonable chunk of change for a lathe with no tooling and a known question mark, but it's not crazy either. There's alot to be said for buying a lathe, using it/ learning on it and then possibly moving onto something better in the future. Unless there's something major wrong with this I doubt a couple of years of ownership would cost you a great deal if you move onto another lathe.

TLoud · Dec 31, 2021

I got a little more info:

“The bull gear on the spindle had a couple bad teeth. I took me two years to find a nice replacement bull gear, by the time I got it I didn’t see any reason to install it and the back gear. I’m selling it because I have a hardinge collet lathe on the way. The spindle uses adjustable split bronze plain bearings. The ways do have wear. When I got the lathe it was mostly cleaned up and painted but the original forward/reverse switch was broke- so replaced the electrical except the motor.“

I think I’ll steer clear and keep looking. Thanks for everyone’s help!

Kevin T · Dec 31, 2021

TLoud said:
I got a little more info:

“The bull gear on the spindle had a couple bad teeth. I took me two years to find a nice replacement bull gear, by the time I got it I didn’t see any reason to install it and the back gear. I’m selling it because I have a hardinge collet lathe on the way. The spindle uses adjustable split bronze plain bearings. The ways do have wear. When I got the lathe it was mostly cleaned up and painted but the original forward/reverse switch was broke- so replaced the electrical except the motor.“

I think I’ll steer clear and keep looking. Thanks for everyone’s help!

Well if you get the parts and it works that's good. I like the large dials on the cross and compound feeds too. Sounds like you have a bit of ammo to make a lower offer. Does it make sense to you at a lower price?

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