South Bend 16 Toolroom Lathe - The Adventure Begins... - Page 8
Close
Login to Your Account
Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789 LastLast
Results 141 to 160 of 161
  1. #141
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Hawaii
    Posts
    295
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    117
    Likes (Received)
    46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Having reread what you said, thought I'd reply again, lol.

    This thread, page 3, posts #46 to 50 have some relevant pics:
    South Bend No. 2-H Turret Lathe 16"x6' Restoration

    Plus I'm posting another pic that I never posted. It shows a top down view of base off bed.

    Basically the assembly is double hinged. One hinge for motor to lower spindle pulley drive. The other hinge for complete assembly that allows you select which pulley step for spindle.

    Those hinges have steel bars, held in place usually with set screws. Set screws may be accessible from top or bottom, might be in collars that allow plates to float a bit for belt alignments.

    But the catch 22 is I really think motor has to be out of the way to access them. With motor out, you can rotate plate fully to see set screws, loosen/remove them, then knock bars out. But the whole assembly hinge would have to be first, as circle hole in base allows extraction. The hinge for lower plate would be removed with whole assembly out of base and on the floor, another catch 22.

    Attachment 273199
    Thanks for responding in here. Your approach looks like the very best choice! Your pics are great!

  2. #142
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    547
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    285
    Likes (Received)
    183

    Default

    Thinking about it a little more, I realized I got one in a similar position. Been kinda working at my own pace, and haven't actually touch it in about two months. But thought I should just go take some pics directly.

    This particular lathe is not high priority. I'm addressing problem areas, clean, re-felt and lube. When operation I'll probably sell it to clear a little room as I'm jam packed atm.

    Anyway 1st pic, I picked overhead using a chain fall. Without head stock, I'm thinking I'm only holding about 300 lbs on that side. I got weight on a single 2 x 4. Left chain fall in place as precaution. I'd have done it with headstock on as well if need be, but my rigging skills and options are pretty fair.

    2nd pic. Base is roll over and motor out. I'm holding motor plate up.

    3rd pic. Note ear from hinge, opposite base door side, about 2 oclock behind pulley.

    4th pic. That ear has the only set screw for that plate rod, its below surface in that hole. allen head. That screw can be taken out base right side up. However, I higher doubt rod will just slide out. Probably needs a little manipulation from a 3 lb hammer.

    5th pic. Problem is room to hit rod from small vent door side. No room. If rod can possibly come out, must go large vent side, and even then its a close call.

    Pulling the other rod, which is hinge for whole assembly, would allow better access to rod you actually want to pull. But it can't be done base right side up, the whole assembly is just way too heavy to man handle, and would be a really bad time working through base doors. With base upside down, there's no SURPRISE sudden weight drop, lol, all the weight lays natural with minor movement when you pull main assembly hinge rod.

    7.jpg8.jpg9.jpg10.jpg11.jpg

  3. Likes Kevin T liked this post
  4. #143
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Norfolk, UK
    Posts
    849
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    844
    Likes (Received)
    340

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Assuming the headstock is still off, unbolting motor base from bed is not a big deal. Use cherry picker to lift that side of bed a little. Slide base out. Hold bed up with a couple of 2x4's or 4 x 4's in place of base.

    If your ceiling in garage has exposed beams, might use a come-a-long to hold that side of bed up as well.

    With motor base detached from bed, roll it upside down. Can use the cherry picker to help roll it. It may seem like more work, but I guarantee you'll struggle and work twice as hard laying on floor working through base door/ vent door holes.
    Interesting-that's what I'm on this moment. Took the whole base unit off and turned it upside down. Bed resting on a stand.Decided it'd be easier to change motors this way rather than all the cussing and grovelling around. The whole lot needs a good clean and check anyway,and I found the main hinge bar was out of trim. I'll even be doing a bit on it tomorrow morning!

  5. #144
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Hawaii
    Posts
    295
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    117
    Likes (Received)
    46

    Default

    The motor is out! Was tough work to get the plate out first but that is the order that worked with the pedestal still mounted. I need to start asking questions about taking part of the motor apart to get the crud out of it. It had to be close to a fire hazard with some of the vents totally covered with oil and dust plugs! Anyone know where I can get up to speed on a partial rebuild for cleaning purposes? I'm gonna post in here in the antique section but I'm taking advice where I can get it! Motor is a 1.5 HP Louis Allis Co.

    p1050145.jpg

    p1050146.jpg

    p1050149.jpg



    p1050152.jpg

  6. #145
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Hawaii
    Posts
    295
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    117
    Likes (Received)
    46

    Default

    The motor mounting plate had some beautiful machining marks on it from a fly cutter I presume? You can see from the pivot shaft an indent where a setscrew keep it in place. It took a 1/8" allen wrench to get backed out enough to start working that pin free. It was a blind location so I tried a few things before I got it right! There was enough of the pivot shaft sticking out of the gear end that I could get some vice grips on it and start working it out. It was very difficult since there was a lot of dried grease and grime on it.

    p1050154.jpg

    p1050155.jpg

    p1050158.jpg

    Now I can get in there!

    p1050153.jpg

    p1050159.jpg

  7. #146
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Houston, TX USA
    Posts
    30,297
    Post Thanks / Like

    Default

    beautiful machining marks on it from a fly cutter I presume?
    Blanchard Grinder

  8. Likes Kevin T, SBLatheman liked this post
  9. #147
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Hawaii
    Posts
    295
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    117
    Likes (Received)
    46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Blanchard Grinder
    Ah yes! I had never seen one of these before. Thanks


  10. Likes mcload liked this post
  11. #148
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Hawaii
    Posts
    295
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    117
    Likes (Received)
    46

    Default

    CLeaning up the motor! I found some cool old decals on the motor when I took it out. I wished I had known they were there under the grime so I messed one side up but I am going to re-paint it on just for fun.

    p1050174.jpg

    The Louis Allen Co.

    p1050175.jpg

    I am trying to get the motor cleaned up and put back in service

    p1050166.jpg

    p1050182.jpg

    p1050189.jpg

  12. #149
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Hawaii
    Posts
    295
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    117
    Likes (Received)
    46

    Default

    I am not sure if cleaning out the grooves of the stator is necessary or a bad move. I am not sure where to ask about electrical motor questions so I am hoping that one of you guys will have some advice for me.

    p1050188.jpg

    p1050190.jpg

  13. #150
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    belleville,il
    Posts
    227
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    148
    Likes (Received)
    29

    Default

    Check around for a local repair/rewind shop. See if they would clean it and check it out electrically. A good shop can freshen it up for you.

  14. #151
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1
    Likes (Received)
    4

    Default motor winding check

    that's actually the Louis Allis co. motor .they make some serous motors for industry . the stator windings are resin insulated ,sleeve bearing's makes it very unusual and vintage .I would clean it up and display it in your trophy room ,but if you going to use I would suggest on vintage motors you only blow them out with air and maybe electrical contact cleaner to remove oil ,carbon or chit from stator and windings . most older motors are varnish dipped and baked with slot-insulation paper between laminations .all that insulation and paper get very brittle and are easily cracked when messed with (can you say short or rewind job ) . your motor being resin insulated was wound for heavy duty service ,maybe class C . If I were you I would brush it out with a soft bristle brush (plastic ect ,tooth brush )and blow it out ,take care not to nick or chip the motor winding ends .go ahead and pretty it up (paint ect; ) those bearings have to have seals and some type of oil wicking material ( if it was running I would not have jacked with pulling it apart ),if there's a number on the seals you mite get lucky and find they don't leak when you reassemble the motor . you can get seals from Louis Aillis . so after you reassemble the motor . the following are the electrical checks you need to make before putting fire to it . (Starting it up with appropriate voltage ). you'll need a good multi -meter and mega-ohms meter say a simpson 260 or fluke 87series multi meter or anything in between ,maybe a biddle to a fluke or any megger in between . so lets start at the motor terminals ,first were going to check for any shorts in your motor windings (turn to turn shorts and shorts to ground ) .all connects ,bars ect should be made up and the three leads for across the line T1,T2 &T3 are the ones were using to preform said check . make sure there clean .set your meter on the lowest Ohm setting (as an example ,R1000,R100 & R10 ,us R10) with one lead of your meter touch the wire lead T1 and with the other meter lead touch T2 ,T3 should be insulated or held in free air so it touches nothing.Do the same with all combinations of motor leads (T1 &T3 and T2 and T3) .what you should read ;,that is most important is that each test should be exactly the same (not a tenth or less difference between one reading or the other period .a typical reading on a poly ,squirrel cage 3 phase of that type maybe 1 to 5 ohms depending on winding wire size length ,delta or wye configuration .if for example your read the same on two and then other one 2 ohm less on one then you have just located a motor winding turn to turn short .that can blow a motor starter up and trip a 1000 amp breaker (been there done that a time or two ).next were going to check the windings for any shorts to ground ,. this time tape off T2 & T3 (don't let them touch anything ) set you multi meter on the R100 ,highest ohm setting and touch meter lead to T1 and the other Meter lead to the frame of the motor somewhere on bare metal ,do the same with the other motor leads T2 & T3 . if your using an analog meter the needle should not move or defect at all ,if a digital meter you will read no continuity at all (infinity,OL ). If both of them test are preformed and test acceptable it would be ok to load test the motor (proceed with caution ) but I would still want to do a Hipot test with a Megger to check condition/integrity of motor winding (insulation to wire adhesion, hairline cracks in insulation, insulation deteration /heat damage ect; ) ,so lets move on to that test. Ok ,so set your mega/ohm meter to highest meg setting and 1000volt or 500volts if that's your highest setting . again separate T1,T2 T3 ,take one motor lead at a time ,and clip on your positive lead + to one motor lead ,say T1 then take your other meter negative - lead and connect it (clip it )to the frame of the motor again .if your meters manual say a biddle then start cranking on that handle (that generates your voltage )or digital push that go button . again on a motor that size type and vintage you should read around 75 to 100 mega ohms ,any lower than that and you may have leakage to ground or excessive moisture in motor windings ,.,Any lower than 20 megs and you got problems ,take indoors and dry it out for a few days (heat lamp /fan ect )and meg it again .If you were in Houston I would send you over to see Dennis at EEMC or Gerald at Houston dynamics or a few of the folks that worked for Hieghts armature to load test it ,I don't know any more shop in the heavy commercial /industrial sector that would even consider a rewind on something that small or vintage ,good luck ,Ray

  15. Likes Kevin T liked this post
  16. #152
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Hawaii
    Posts
    295
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    117
    Likes (Received)
    46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RRR View Post
    that's actually the Louis Allis co. motor .they make some serous motors for industry
    Thanks Triple R! I haven't been posting too much here but I have been doing a lot of work with the help of the guys in the antique machinery section of this place. I learned a lot about testing the motor and working my way through a lot of teh testing you menetion here.


    Louis Allis Co. Motor


    Vintage Megger Testers

    I was lucky in a way because I know that my motor works but it was seriously dirty inside and some of the vents were plugged so it was good medicine to do all this work. At least it will be if the motor works when I get it all back together! I found a lot of the things taht can go wrong with these old motors. Cotton wrapped wires can soak up with oils over the years and cook into a hard mess that cracks and breaks down. I found a lot of exposed wire in the power leads so I sleeved the wires with shrink tubing to make them strong enough to handle the rewire.

    p1050216.jpg

    I found one crack in the insulation that bothered me so I cleaned it with some electrical cleaner and put a brush on varnish on it to try and keep it safer to use.

    p1050204.jpg


    I just buttoned the motor up this morning and am getting ready to put it back in the lathe.

    p1050221.jpg

    p1050227.jpg

    p1050228.jpg

  17. #153
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    peekskill, NY
    Posts
    24,551
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    4617

    Default

    Boy you don't quit, do you?

    Amazing stuff. Couple of comments about lube:

    1) you can buy brand new oiler cups. Those really dress up a machine.

    2) be sure all the flip top oiler points are in good condition, and that none are missing.

    3) the little hole on the single tumbler gearbox top lever, needs to have a brass plug in it.
    I think the plug on the front of the gearbox is either in the wrong place, or you just have one
    missing. Make a replacement if it's missing, using the existing one as a pattern. It should
    have the round shaft split, so it can be expanded to fit snug into place.

  18. #154
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Hawaii
    Posts
    295
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    117
    Likes (Received)
    46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Boy you don't quit, do you?

    Amazing stuff. Couple of comments about lube:

    1) you can buy brand new oiler cups. Those really dress up a machine.

    2) be sure all the flip top oiler points are in good condition, and that none are missing.

    3) the little hole on the single tumbler gearbox top lever, needs to have a brass plug in it.
    I think the plug on the front of the gearbox is either in the wrong place, or you just have one
    missing. Make a replacement if it's missing, using the existing one as a pattern. It should
    have the round shaft split, so it can be expanded to fit snug into place.
    It has been a 25+ year dream of mine to have a real lathe in the garage so I dont plan on giving up! I am not sure which gearbox pics you are looking at but I have the brass plug in mine. I have thought about new oiler cups but I am going to push that out into the future, I really want to be using this awesome machine! Once she is running I can see what I might need to do.

  19. #155
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    peekskill, NY
    Posts
    24,551
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    4617

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin T View Post
    I ran into my first snag on this lathe work. I could not get the taper pin out of the nut on the gear shaft inside the box! I am a little upset that I am not going to be able to replace the felt inside that shaft but I need to move on. I cleaned up the gears the best I could on the bench, replaced the felts I could get to and am going to put her back in service like it is.

    Attachment 259109

    Attachment 259110

    I am expecting a tumbler lever in the mail soon so with that I can move on to the apron.
    This picture here. It's supposed to go in the top lever, in the oiler hole there. Keeps junk out. Machines missing flip up oilers
    or a plug in the right place, eventually have the bushings and shafts fill up with swarf.

  20. #156
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Hawaii
    Posts
    295
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    117
    Likes (Received)
    46

    Default

    Started re-assembling the headstock end so this is progress but mainly to clear off my long workbench so I can make a new wiring harness to connect to the RPC that is sitting on the bench too!

    I thought it would be a good idea to measure the shims in my bearings just to record for someone else or to refer to later and mine are really not all that precision. They are actually varying thicknesses of around .01. I am talking varying thickness measured on each individual shim if I mic around in different places on one shim! They are thickest at the hole and index pin area and thinner toward the spindle. I thought this was odd. Has anyone else noticed this?

    I had a question about torquing the bolts that hold the upper bearing half on too. I am able to tighten these bolts to the point that the spindle wont turn so i backed them off a bit and tightened them with less torque so the spindle could spin freely. Is that normal or do I have some shim work ahead of me?

  21. #157
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    547
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    285
    Likes (Received)
    183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin T View Post
    I had a question about torquing the bolts that hold the upper bearing half on too. I am able to tighten these bolts to the point that the spindle wont turn so i backed them off a bit and tightened them with less torque so the spindle could spin freely. Is that normal or do I have some shim work ahead of me?
    Guessing your original torque was not excessive, like a 400lb gorilla did it, so you might want to add .0005, to .001 and see how you do. If you put a dial indicator at 12 oclock on spindle, lifting spindle up and down with a pry bar (reasonable pressure, not trying to flip machine), you'll probably want .001 to .0015" oil clearance, with caps locked down tight.

    Also curious which lube you're using. When I built mine I had drag, that I didn't like, with the recommended spindle oil. While a few here don't agree, I use atf on my my spindle and it spins nice. Did a thrust and up-down check after 2 years, and I'm still holding the same clearances.

  22. Likes Kevin T liked this post
  23. #158
    Join Date
    Jan 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Hawaii
    Posts
    295
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    117
    Likes (Received)
    46

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by texasgunsmith View Post
    Guessing your original torque was not excessive, like a 400lb gorilla did it, so you might want to add .0005, to .001 and see how you do. If you put a dial indicator at 12 oclock on spindle, lifting spindle up and down with a pry bar (reasonable pressure, not trying to flip machine), you'll probably want .001 to .0015" oil clearance, with caps locked down tight.

    Also curious which lube you're using. When I built mine I had drag, that I didn't like, with the recommended spindle oil. While a few here don't agree, I use atf on my my spindle and it spins nice. Did a thrust and up-down check after 2 years, and I'm still holding the same clearances.
    It was the TYPE A oil that comes in the rebuild kit. Do we have to cut our own shims or are there some patterns out there?

  24. #159
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Texas
    Posts
    547
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    285
    Likes (Received)
    183

    Default

    I think it was this forum, I saw someone offering to make shims, but it could have been ebay. I want to say I saw it in the past year or so. But I would say they are not readily available, but from that one guy. I'd expect getting shim stock in .001, .002, and .003"'s and cutting it yourself will give you a bunch of options to experiment to get your clearance right where you're comfortable with.

  25. #160
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    94
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    28
    Likes (Received)
    10

    Default

    I've have been reading of your journey with this lathe and the numerous problems you are encountering. I have to say that you are at the RIGHT forum as the guys giving advice are absolutely the best and most experienced bunch on the internet. And of course, kudos to Practical Machinist for hosting this S Bend forum!. It's really a heartache to see some of the problems you've run into like broken parts and gears...I feel so lucky that my little 9" Model A is in such good condition and well taken care of.

    But you seem to be overcoming the problems best you can and making strides; once you've finished, you'll have a great sense of achievement. Keep all your photos and print out this forum when its all said and done. Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead! Best of luck!

    PMc


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •