South Bend 9x36 Information Wanted

Let me start by saying that I'm new to metal-working and have been hunting around for a lathe with which to get started. I've repeatedly found a lathe for sale, wanted to research it, and almost always have hit posts on Practical Machinist with great information. So, clearly, I had to join the site so I could even better benefit from the amazing amount of information you guys have and so generously share.

On to my question ... there is a local seller of a lathe described as a South Bend 9x36 benchtop lathe. It is nicely painted (which worries me a little, honestly) and the assertion is that it was restored in 2005.

I asked for, and got from the seller, a serial number and wonder if anyone can give me more information about the lathe based on that. The serial is :

30790NAR9

A rough idea of value (yeah, I know it depends upon tooling included along with other factors) would be helpful as well as "gotchas" to watch for with this particular make/model of lathe. If that isn't enough for someone to better enlighten me ... no worries. Thanks, in advance, for any insights you might be able to share.

-- Dwight

There are three kinds of paint jobs - really nice that looks almost like the factory (this is a very good sign, but why is he selling it if he spent that much time on it); OK, done when cleaning and restoring (you gotta do something after cleaning all the crud off); the one where they overspray the ways, the bench, and god knows what. The third one is bad; the other two are probably alright.

Value depends on condition, market, and tooling. A 9A x 36, with only a 3 jaw chuck, a live center, and a tool post, is worth about $650 in good condition in Pittsburgh. In New York, it's maybe $550. In Omaha, maybe $1250. If you add a thread dial, a 4 jaw chuck, a milling attachment, collets, a taper attachment, and a quick-change tool post, raise everything by around $1000.

I'm gonna go out on a limb here, make some people upset, but . . . no 9" South Bend is worth more than $2000, not because they aren't good, but because there are too many good ones available at that price, even if you have to pay $500 for delivery.

Look at the ways 6" in front of the chuck. Look at the bottom of the tailstock. Ask the seller if he can pull the spindle so you can check the bearings (OK, that's probably only gonna happen for prices above $1200, but it's worth asking). Look at all the gears. Look at the half-nuts. Push/pull the slides to feel for slop. Try to feel the slop in the lead screw.

Finally, remember that pictures will get you much better answers, and that you should never depend on one old man's opinions. Wait for several more people to join in.

Oh, the serial number
SBL Serial Number File

Built in the middle of 1952.

Lathes are less common in NC, though there are always a few around Charlotte for sale. So you have to pay a little more than folks in the north east. Condition and tooling then will be the deciding factors. I expect $500 for a clapped out lathe with no tooling, up to $1500 for a creampuff with lots of tooling.

allan

Thanks for the information and insights. This really helps. I should have mentioned tooling included in my original post. The seller says it includes :

- 3 Jaw Chuck w/Key
- 4 Jaw Chuck w/Key
- Collet Chuck with Collets and Collet Holder
- Threading Gearbox
- Auto Cross Feed and Longitudinal Feed
- Cutting tools with Quick Change tool holder

As best I can discern from the SB serial number list this is a Model A machine. The seller is asking $1300, which is below what was suggested as a top-dollar number, but still in the "better be a premium machine" range. My suspicion is that with the tooling this is a fair price assuming the machine is otherwise in good shape. Correct me if I'm mistaken, of course.

By the way, getting a sense of how prices vary from region to region is -very- helpful. I'm in central NC and am willing to travel a bit to find something good ... but this machine happens to be within 30 minutes of my home. I also have a machine-tool-crazy friend who is game to help evaluate and transport. Even if this doesn't end up being the one I get, researching and understanding the pros/cons/features/values is a good education.

-- Dwight

I grew up in central NC, so I am familiar with the problem- have to drive 30 minutes just to get to a grocery store

Unlike our friend from PA above, I'd say $1300 is not unreasonable, assuming it has good bed ways, clean tailstock bore, etc. It is easy to get fooled by a 'Rustoleum Rebuild' if you don't know what you are looking for.

allan

kitno455 said:

I grew up in central NC, so I am familiar with the problem- have to drive 30 minutes just to get to a grocery store

Unlike our friend from PA above, I'd say $1300 is not unreasonable, assuming it has good bed ways, clean tailstock bore, etc. It is easy to get fooled by a 'Rustoleum Rebuild' if you don't know what you are looking for.

allan

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I'm not saying $1300 is unreasonable, given the location and the tooling, but you are creeping up on the price of a 10L, a Monarch or a Sheldon. In this case, you've got maybe $400 worth of extra, so if a basic 9A x 36 is worth $900 in that market, you should buy. Remember, you'll never regret a South Bend 9, and you can always sell it if you decide to move up.

I look at CL in the Triangle from time to time, and you don't see many SB lathes of any kind. I always add in $1 a mile, one way, if I have to travel, so you can't drive from Durham to Tampa just to get a good buy.

Got any pictures?

Found the pictures. Two things worry me.

The paint job is ugly, but looks like what you often see in school lathes. But, the paint is recent, and I've never seen anybody paint the chuck, the countershaft pulley, or the tumbler handles. Why do that?

The handle on the compound is missing? Busted off in a fall? Maybe knocked off while on a pallet?

Yet it has collets in pretty good shape??

I'm guessing a flipper. Nothing wrong with flippers, but expect to completely strip it, put in new felts, replace the slide handle, replace the half-nuts and slide nuts, and repair/shim whatever is hidden by the paint.

Restoration and painted chuck and tumbler handles??
You better have a real good look at the "restoration"

Personally, I prefer un-repainted lathes.

Like Big Gem said, there are rebuilds and Krylon rebuilds.

Problem is the guy that does the Krylon rebuild believes that he has enhanced the value of the lathe and expects to be compensated for it, when, in my opinion, he has just added an extra layer of paint and overspray that needs to be removed.

Steve

SteveM said:

Personally, I prefer un-repainted lathes.

Like Big Gem said, there are rebuilds and Krylon rebuilds.

Problem is the guy that does the Krylon rebuild believes that he has enhanced the value of the lathe and expects to be compensated for it, when, in my opinion, he has just added an extra layer of paint and overspray that needs to be removed.

Steve

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I think it depends on the circumstances. If I take a 9A apron completely apart, clean everything thoroughly, replace clapped out parts, and put in new felt, I will take the time to paint the casting so that I know it's been brought up to snuff. On the other hand, if I only do a WD-40 and stiff brush cleanup, I leave the paint alone. But, no matter what, any machine in my shop has all sliding surfaces free of paint, ten year old crud, fossilized grease, etc. When I see overspray on the ways, or the jaw slides in a chuck, I figure the painter was hiding something, or else just didn't care. I always remember the lathe I bought for parts. It had pretty bad surface rust, so the "restorer" had used a sand blaster to clean the bed. Oi!!

Big Gem said:

I always remember the lathe I bought for parts. It had pretty bad surface rust, so the "restorer" had used a sand blaster to clean the bed. Oi!!

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OUCH! I'll bet he wanted extra for the "cleaning".

Some of the worst offenders I've seen included matching paint on the floor or on the pallet with the outline of the machine.

Steve

I assume this is the ad: https://greensboro.craigslist.org/tls/5369335782.html

With those colours, it looks like a school lathe I bought a while back. They usually have very little wear but the compound is often chewed up from running into the chuck. Providing the ways and spindle are good, I think it would be a very good deal with all the extras. I don't see a threading dial but they are easy enough to make. Those tool holders will work well.

tool holders look home made.? Someone went nuts with the paint job.

martik777 said:

I assume this is the ad: https://greensboro.craigslist.org/tls/5369335782.html

With those colours, it looks like a school lathe I bought a while back. They usually have very little wear but the compound is often chewed up from running into the chuck. Providing the ways and spindle are good, I think it would be a very good deal with all the extras. I don't see a threading dial but they are easy enough to make. Those tool holders will work well.

Click to expand...

Around here, the students have the bad habit of waiting till the shop teacher is on the other side of the shop, then shifting gears without stopping the lathe, so they get that teeth-grinding sound. When you find a school lathe, some are great, some are garbage. We used to have specialty shops that would pull all the lathes out of a school and bring them back to snuff, but no more. There must not be a hundred lathes left in all the school shops in Pittsburgh. I'm not counting those little toy lathes that have become so popular.

This has all been great information. However, before I got a chance to go look at the SB in question I tripped across a Logan Model 200 which was a LOT less expensive ($400), and a lot closer to home. My tool-crazy friend went and looked at it and declared it a good deal. Since this is a SB sub-forum I'll not go into a lot of detail about the Logan, but did want to cap off the thread with a thank-you for all the great information and insights. I probably will post elsewhere on the PM site because I do have questions. Again, thanks to everyone who chimed in and shared your knowledge. Much appreciated.