Are South Bend parts drawings available somewhere?

I am a hobbyist and have been working on refurbishing a 1971 SB13 toolroom lathe. Along the way, I have needed to make and repair a few parts. When making a reproduction part, I find it preferable to first create a drawing with all the needed dimensions, then make the part in my machine shop. I have found this "reverse engineering" work to be somewhat more difficult than I had originally imagined. Just taking measurements off a used part with wear and possibly other damage isn't quite what is needed. For example, a part I'm looking at might need to be 1.000", or it may need to be 0.997 for a sliding fit, or it may need to be 1.0025" for a press fit. My point is that you can't just measure the worn part. You need some understanding of the part's function within the machine and then additional information from Machinery's Handbook or similar to complete the picture. Another more subtle issue is the fact that the original part was made to specifications on a drawing that included both dimensions and tolerances. Quite possibly a part that measures 0.997" or 1.003" would best be made to a nominal 1.000". This can be important when the part needs to match up with commercially made hardware like a pin or a bearing.

Having struggled with this a few times, I'm wondering:

1. Is there somewhere that I might find proper drawings of South Bend parts? An online archive or a reproduction set of prints that could be ordered would be ideal.

2. If the answer to question #1 is "no", do other rebuilders feel that a collection of reverse-engineered SB parts drawings would be useful to the community?

3. If your answer to question #2 is "yes", what would be the best way to start such a collection? I have three or four drawings that I could contribute. If there is enough interest I may be willing to spend some time on it as a long-term project.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts,
-- mike

That's one of the nice thing for folks that have Craftsman lathes & mills , if Clausing ( who bought out Atlas that made the tools in the first place ) no longer stocks the part they will give you the drawing so you can make your own .
animal

As far as I know, the new owners of SBL, Grizzly Industrial, they will not give or sell you drawings of any of the SBL parts.

I have reversed engineered a few parts off my 9" SBL for my needs. I think I have a drawing of the cross feed screw to the 13" lathe with taper attachment. On Steve Wells website, he has a few old SBL drawings posted. Have to do some searching for them.

As for how to dimension parts measured, most all of the parts are made to fractional measurements. For fits, like decimal dimensions, OD's will be to a nominal dimension like 1.000" and will carry a tolerance of minus 0.001 on most. If it is a close fit like a quick change gear, clearance will probably be 0.001" and the bore will probably be plus 0.001" . I highly doubt, SBL used the fits called out in the Machinery's Handbook. I know in my industry, we have our own standard for fits and clearances.

You pretty much establish your own set of standards for tolerancing and fits IMO on lathe parts.

On another forum, I have drawn up many drawings for parts to lathes I've owned or still owned.

Ken

That's valuable information - thank you so much

animal12 said:

That's one of the nice thing for folks that have Craftsman lathes & mills , if Clausing ( who bought out Atlas that made the tools in the first place ) no longer stocks the part they will give you the drawing so you can make your own .
animal

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I happen to have a Craftsman lathe in addition to my South Bend. In fact, I'm using the Craftsman to make replacement parts for the South Bend (hope SB is not offended). The Craftsman is in really good shape right now, but I'm sure I'll need something for it one of these days. It's great to know that Clausing is taking that attitude.

-- mike

There's a YouTuber that is restoring an old LeBlond lathe. As he takes the lathe apart, he is taking measurements of each piece and modeling them in SolidWorks and then assembling the lathe in 3D.

I think that would be an interesting project (but with Fusion 360) if I were to ever get another SBL to restore - almost bid on a 16" today at an auction. It sold for $1000 to someone else.

But I also don't know how much of a kerfuffle this would raise with Grizzly. They won't even let companies make and sell reproduction badges for machines that they no longer have parts. If it smells like SBL, you could end up getting a letter from a lawyer.

I had not seen the LeBlonde project on YouTube. I can't imagine how much work all that modeling must be. I often spend a couple hours modeling a single part in Fusion. I have looked up the project and will begin watching to see what I can learn. Thanks for pointing it out.

It's an interesting question about the legality of creating parts or even drawings for these old lathes. Certainly people do make and sell reproduction parts. For example, I had someone make a new cross slide screw and nut for mine. Certainly all the patents have expired, but drawings may still have copyright protection. Does that mean you can make the parts but not the drawings? I also have to say that Grizzly's attitude is a disservice to their customers. It doesn't make me want to do business with them.

There is no legality copying lathe parts and making your own drawings as long as you are not violating a current patent or copyright. The only way you could violate a copyright is if you had a original drawing and made and sold parts from that drawing. Reverse engineering a part and creating your own drawing with your name on the drawing reserves your right to make that part. As long as that company name is not mentioned on your drawing. It is best not to use the same part number. Change the number by either adding a prefix or suffix to the part number. Lots of ways to get around the part number bit.
I do this kind of work almost everyday with my job. Different industry though.

I have some SOLIDWORKS models of various parts of my 9a, in addition to some drawings that I've stumbled upon. I like the idea of having a central hosting location for these/similar docs that would be available in perpetuity and can be communally accessed. Anyone care to take the helm on this?

I would think VintageMachinery.org seems to be the logic place for scanned drawings. Although I don't know if they can handle different file types outside of PDFs.

Before posting any drawing files over there, better check with them first. They may have their own issues with posting such things over there. Just saying.

IHateMayonnaise said:

I have some SOLIDWORKS models of various parts of my 9a, in addition to some drawings that I've stumbled upon. I like the idea of having a central hosting location for these/similar docs that would be available in perpetuity and can be communally accessed. Anyone care to take the helm on this?

Click to expand...

I'm looking for a carriage lock for a SB 9a. They seem to be scarce on EBay; do you have a drawing for that?

4GSR said:

As far as I know, the new owners of SBL, Grizzly Industrial, they will not give or sell you drawings of any of the SBL parts.

I have reversed engineered a few parts off my 9" SBL for my needs. I think I have a drawing of the cross feed screw to the 13" lathe with taper attachment. On Steve Wells website, he has a few old SBL drawings posted. Have to do some searching for them.

As for how to dimension parts measured, most all of the parts are made to fractional measurements. For fits, like decimal dimensions, OD's will be to a nominal dimension like 1.000" and will carry a tolerance of minus 0.001 on most. If it is a close fit like a quick change gear, clearance will probably be 0.001" and the bore will probably be plus 0.001" . I highly doubt, SBL used the fits called out in the Machinery's Handbook. I know in my industry, we have our own standard for fits and clearances.

You pretty much establish your own set of standards for tolerancing and fits IMO on lathe parts.

On another forum, I have drawn up many drawings for parts to lathes I've owned or still owned.

Ken

Click to expand...

good for them . but yes you are right just as ford would not give you prints for model T parts as they have moved way be on that . but when it comes to Grizzly i say piss on them . as there are or were people that made reproductions on vintage south bend plates that were so far removed from the crap that Grizzly sales . yes south bend is there trade mark so why not make plates that do not have south bend on it that way Grizzly could piss off and as far as prints of parts go it would just have to be reverse engineered

It would seem to me that any new drawings with modern CNC tolerances called out on them would no be a copy of anything that South Bend would have called out on them and therefore not a copy. IMO

Although I'm not a Southbend fan, even after having grown up on one, I have done more than my fair share of reverse engineering of parts after kindly asking parent companies for the drawings. Turns out that parts that are no longer made are still impossible to get, even if you have the facilities to make them yourself. I just don't understand the need to hide old specs and drawings. I wish you the best of luck and more power to "The Right to Repair Act."

Sent from my S61 using Tapatalk

Sorry, the only drawings I have are for the 13, and then only for specific parts I've had to make.

Not letting people access the drawings of parts no longer in production and for which you aren't going to produce reminds me of the guy with a book that originally sold for maybe fifty bucks and now sells for a grand for a legit copy but he won't print any new ones.
Then you wonder why there are counterfeits.

Steve