South Bend Shaper Restoration
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  1. #1
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    Default South Bend Shaper Restoration

    ** First off - I had NO plans on beginning this now (with a SB Pedestal grinder restoration in flight and also not to mention all the other little things in the shop that pop up). So tonight didn't go well at all. This was NOT supposed to happen this way.

    I mistakingly removed the two screws that hold the internal oil pump to the main casting. Stupidly, I thought they were holes to mount an electrical box and that maybe the previous owner simply put some screws the holes. I can it all now in slow motion...

    I removed them and then hear the pump as it slumped down inside - and then the pump "arm" must have come off or out of alignment. After some fussing around, I got the pump back on, but the arm still wasn't working properly - so when it ran, the oil wasn't pumping. Taking off a bolt here and there to try to get at the pump-arm, led to this:



    So now, I'm thrust into a disassembly and ultimately a restoration that I didn't want to do (right at this time).


    Here's some footage of it before my "forced" disassembly:
    https://youtu.be/lbo1aRDzmC4

    If anyone has experience in restoring one of these, I might need a little help with the disassembly.

    This will be a long one, for sure.


  2. #2
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    You won't be able to restore it, so I suggest you give it to me.

    Ken

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    Just walk away Brad, it will still be there later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbwillnj View Post
    Just walk away Brad, it will still be there later.
    That's EXACTLY what I did. I was getting pretty testy, slamming some wrenches down - but it was late, I was tired and they don't make shaper parts anymore, so I exercised that golden rule, of walking away and letting a little time pass. I'll get with it later this week.

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    At least you have one with the oil pump. I have to figure out how to retro one!

    John

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    Brad, I have one sitting, waiting to be restored, so I will just wait and follow your lead. Will this be a Utube series?

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    Quote Originally Posted by swwi View Post
    Brad, I have one sitting, waiting to be restored, so I will just wait and follow your lead. Will this be a Utube series?
    Yeah, I do believe it will be on video as well

  10. #8
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    Default Taper Pins - sigh...

    Well, it just wouldn't be a South Bend restoration without THIS happening now, would it?

    I thought I'd break the casting I was wrapping at that muther, so hard. Time to drill. But we all know how THAT typically goes. I think I might mill a slot and make a custom pin. More to come on that...




    With Ram removed, countershaft removed and all other internal guts removed (with the exception of the oil pump).


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    I feel yer pain, re: the taper pins! I worked on Bell 412 helicopters for a while, and had ALL SORTS of joy with them there.

    Looks to me like cleaning up those holes and soldering in some plugs, might be an option. Then you can drill and ream for new pins. Do a decent job of it and the repair will be darn near invisible.

    Cheers
    Trev

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    Brad, South Bend restorers around the world feel better knowing they're not alone in their rage against the taper pin. After a few mangled parts (and fingers), my taper pin removal process is:

    1. Find the small end and make sure it's really the small end. This is trickier than it sounds sometimes.

    2. Hit it with a good straight flat nose punch/drift 2-3 times with a 2-lb hammer. These are good hits, not love taps, but not hard enough to break what the pin is attached to. The bigger hammer works better than a smaller one...because Sir Isaac Newton said so.

    3. When step #1 fails, and it usually does, I drill the big end to a depth of about 1/4 the length of the pin. Drill size isn't critical--just the largest one I can get in there without cutting into the surrounding material. I drill the small end to a depth of about 2/3 the length of the pin, leaving a solid "bulkhead" inside the pin.

    4. Drive the pin out pushing against the bulkhead. So far, without fail (maybe six instances), the pin elongates/stretches enough to come out with a couple good taps.

    5. If my drilling goes astray, I ream the hole to the next size up. Not that my drilling ever goes astray...

    For anyone reading this later, Amazon sells taper pins and taper pin reamers in any size you need. For SBL machines, you're typically going to need pins and reamers in sizes 3-8.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasutley View Post
    Brad, South Bend restorers around the world feel better knowing they're not alone in their rage against the taper pin. After a few mangled parts (and fingers), my taper pin removal process is:

    1. Find the small end and make sure it's really the small end. This is trickier than it sounds sometimes.

    2. Hit it with a good straight flat nose punch/drift 2-3 times with a 2-lb hammer. These are good hits, not love taps, but not hard enough to break what the pin is attached to. The bigger hammer works better than a smaller one...because Sir Isaac Newton said so.

    3. When step #1 fails, and it usually does, I drill the big end to a depth of about 1/4 the length of the pin. Drill size isn't critical--just the largest one I can get in there without cutting into the surrounding material. I drill the small end to a depth of about 2/3 the length of the pin, leaving a solid "bulkhead" inside the pin.

    4. Drive the pin out pushing against the bulkhead. So far, without fail (maybe six instances), the pin elongates/stretches enough to come out with a couple good taps.

    5. If my drilling goes astray, I ream the hole to the next size up. Not that my drilling ever goes astray...

    For anyone reading this later, Amazon sells taper pins and taper pin reamers in any size you need. For SBL machines, you're typically going to need pins and reamers in sizes 3-8.
    Great info Tom - I like that approach of leaving a center plug. Thanks!

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    @bradjacob, my south bend lathe back gear pivot shaft has the same pin as your shaper..... You described my experience exactly.

    @thomasultley, that sounds like a really neat trick. thanks!!

  17. #13
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    Default Problem Solved - But Restoration Continues

    Problem solved - wait, what problem? WeIl, the whole thing that thrust me into this (early) restoration was accidentally removing the oil pump, reinstalling it, only for the pump lever to not work. It simply was out of the track that it rides in, which is machined into the bull gear. I could have simply pressed the oil pump-lever down (pressing down on the pump) and slid the lever back into the track. But we live and learn, right?

    So now, I got the entire shaper disassembled, with the exception of the oil pump, which I think I'm going to leave alone. One of the oil lines (Gib-side of the ram) isn't pumping oil, but Iike others, I too removed the gib BEFORE removing the ram, so it sheared off the little tube that extends through the gib. All parts now soaking in purple power for de-greasing.

    Enjoy some progress pictures.


    In this picture, we see the oil pump and the pump lever. You'll notice that the level is OFF of the oil pump. Pressing the brass plunger down and sliding the lever on it's retaining shaft would have done the trick. Good to know though, for re-assembly.



    Here is the drive assembly



    A view of the saddle's bronze nut. One thing to all who will restore a shaper - the bottom base MUST separated from the main body-casting from underneath. There are four bolts that connect the two.


    Let's shed some light on this oil-pump... Note the brass plunger is out. It fits over a spring and valve ball.

    Notice the oil lines that flow to gib and the two PLUGS that cover these drilled hole. I wondered how they installed the tubes inside the casting until James Kull demystified this for me, so thanks Jim!



    A view of the oil lines from the gib side. The (brass or bronze?) hole on the left extents into the gib. We can see here that it doesn't any longer. It was sheared off either by me or the previous owner. This is the reason to remove the ram FIRST, before the gib, so you can slide the tube from the gib as you move it towards the center of the shaper body.



    The motor removed from the drive assembly.



    Shaper parts. And some parts are from my second shaper that I recently acquired. *Side note - I picked up another shaper at a good price. So good, that I couldn't NOT get it. Those deals are out there.



    More shaper parts.



    This is what the base looks like when separated from the main body. We also see the saddle and table sitting on it.

  18. #14
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    will this one go back to the south bend grey or will you keep it green? love your work! jonathan

  19. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by j r hayes View Post
    will this one go back to the south bend grey or will you keep it green? love your work! jonathan
    Definitely - going back to original gray!

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    Brad,
    I bought a sb 7 shaper last week and am in the middle of the tear down. How did you remove those two large flat head screws holding the stroke adjustment plate to the bull gear without striping the slots? I was not going to do a full restore, but found my oil pump lever not working. It seems the previous owner didn't get the lever in the cam slot also.

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  22. #17
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    I bought a SB 7b last week and the pump arm is off the Cam. Does that arm need a shim behind it to give it better alignment with the Cam?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bradjacob View Post
    With Ram removed, countershaft removed and all other internal guts removed (with the exception of the oil pump).
    Brad... what was the recipe for sliding the ram free of the body? I'm just trying to move mine from the garage down to my shop in pieces I can lift. Thanks for any guidance. i have rotated the wheel on the port side but was unable to find a position that lowered everything below the ram. Thanks.

    CW

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    Sorry to have to tell you this.... the rocker arm has to be removed first. Mine has 5/16 square headed lock screw on the bottom. Run the rocker arm as far forward as possible. Loosen screw 3or 4 turns to clear the shaft. Push shaft out, the rest should be easy but messy.
    Did it 3 times this morning ,trying to replace an oil line.
    Good luck

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  26. #20
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    Thank you, and wow... who thought that up? Good luck with the oil lines!

    CW


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