Starting the rebuild of a 1950s SB13 TKK Lathe

Hey all, first real post here. The Louisville hackerspace got this 13” south bend lathe as a donation from another makerspace and are starting to clean it and put it back together. My understanding is that came out of a tech school's machine shop as one of a trio of identical machines. From what I can tell, the core of the machine(bedways, headstock bearings, motor, belt pulleys etc) are all in totally serviceable condition and the tailstock has already been beautifully restored by the donors. Returning it to a usable condition appears to be a worthwhile investment.

So far we have the spindle removed and are removing the surface rust from the step pullies. We have also cleaned the gunk out of the 3 and 4 jaw chucks and gotten the lower step pulley mounted on its hinge. Our electrical wiz got the motor turning on a borrowed VFD so I'm going to get the motor mounted next so i can start polishing the rust off the parts below the spindle. We're planning on getting this kit of wicks and information so we can replace the oil felts before we remount the headstock and get it shimmed and locked down. Two questions:

1) What goes here?


It's clearly something to hold up the intermediate shaft and tension the leather belt but I don't think it made it to us with the rest of the bins of parts so I'll need to buy/make one.

2) what size vee belts are used to connect the motor to intermediate shaft? I measured approximately 45" long with a flexible measuring tape but I forgot to bring the aluminum pulley home last night so I don't know what belt profile i need. I'm hoping they're different enough I'll recognize it at rural king.

That's wherethe handle for the spindle belt tightening assembly goes. I don't see one on ebay. Ted might have one?

[email protected]

or just wait for one on ebay.

Your are also missing the back gear (last photo).

Tom

I'm not liking the way the motor and lower drive unit are just sitting there on the pallet. Missing pivot parts?
You need to get a parts diagram and see what is missing. Look here: South Bend Lathe Works - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org
I hope you released the spindle bearing spreaders before you pulled the caps and the spindle.

I really like L series spindles. If it didn't come with a spindle wrench there's a guy here on PM who makes nice ones for a decent price. WalterA, I believe.

hsracer201 said:

That's where the handle for the spindle belt tightening assembly goes. I don't see one on ebay. Ted might have one?
[email protected]
or just wait for one on ebay.

Click to expand...

I'll drop him a line. If I can find what it's supposed to look like I may be able to make one but I haven't found any good pictures on how it works yet. Maybe I can get someone here to take a couple pics for me?

TDegenhart said:

Your are also missing the back gear (last photo).
Tom

Click to expand...

We have it, it's just not installed. Same with the reversing mechanism

Rudd said:

I'm not liking the way the motor and lower drive unit are just sitting there on the pallet. Missing pivot parts?
You need to get a parts diagram and see what is missing. Look here: South Bend Lathe Works - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org
I hope you released the spindle bearing spreaders before you pulled the caps and the spindle.

Click to expand...

Both of the pivot bars are there, I'm not sure why they unmounted the motor but I don't forsee any issues getting it back on. My guess is that the lathe was partially torn down by someone who wasn't able to move forward with rebuilding it. Both of the spindle caps were loose so I took them off and it didn't feel like I broke anything. I did find out later about the spreaders so that is one of my concerns. If I borked them, are they replaceable?

hsracer201 said:

I really like L series spindles. If it didn't come with a spindle wrench there's a guy here on PM who makes nice ones for a decent price. WalterA, I believe.

Click to expand...

That is something I've been looking in to. My plan was to make my own out of some combination of flat bar, band saw and mig welder but maybe I should just buy one from that guy. I found the thread while searching "L00 spindle"

"Borking" the spreaders isn't the concern. If they aren't released before the caps come off, it "borks" the "dovetail" slot in the top of the bearing. I hear sometimes the bearings can be saved after this. Look on the tops of the bearings and see if there is an area that looks "pulled through" in the slot.
The spreaders spread the bearing slightly as you tighten the small screws on the top of the caps. If someone took this lathe apart and then gave it to you, I'd really be digging up that parts diagram. Are the spreaders even there?

Unless that feeds/threads chart on the quick change is NOT original, this machine is rather newer than the 1950's. South Bend Lathe became an "employee owned company" about 1975.

L-00 spindle nose is a plus. About the mid-1970's the D1-4" spindle nose became standard on these with the L-00 or a threaded spindle nose available was options.

David

old_dave said:

Unless that feeds/threads chart on the quick change is NOT original, this machine is rather newer than the 1950's. South Bend Lathe became an "employee owned company" about 1975.

L-00 spindle nose is a plus. About the mid-1970's the D1-4" spindle nose became standard on these with the L-00 or a threaded spindle nose available was options.

David

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Didn't the post '75's have a cam style clutch? My guess is a reproduction tag.

I don't know when they switched for all models, but I have a '62 Heavy 10 with a cam lever.

TIGL said:

Hey all, first real post here. The Louisville hackerspace got this 13” south bend lathe as a donation from another makerspace and are starting to clean it and put it back together. My understanding is that came out of a tech school's machine shop as one of a trio of identical machines. From what I can tell, the core of the machine(bedways, headstock bearings, motor, belt pulleys etc) are all in totally serviceable condition and the tailstock has already been beautifully restored by the donors. Returning it to a usable condition appears to be a worthwhile investment.

So far we have the spindle removed and are removing the surface rust from the step pullies. We have also cleaned the gunk out of the 3 and 4 jaw chucks and gotten the lower step pulley mounted on its hinge. Our electrical wiz got the motor turning on a borrowed VFD so I'm going to get the motor mounted next so i can start polishing the rust off the parts below the spindle. We're planning on getting this kit of wicks and information so we can replace the oil felts before we remount the headstock and get it shimmed and locked down. Two questions:

1) What goes here?

It's clearly something to hold up the intermediate shaft and tension the leather belt but I don't think it made it to us with the rest of the bins of parts so I'll need to buy/make one.

2) what size vee belts are used to connect the motor to intermediate shaft? I measured approximately 45" long with a flexible measuring tape but I forgot to bring the aluminum pulley home last night so I don't know what belt profile i need. I'm hoping they're different enough I'll recognize it at rural king.


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Here is a picture of my tension handle during my resto. It was a bit tricky to take apart and put back together due to the strong spring. It is adjustable system to tension the main drive belt.

Here is also a link to a you tube channel of someone completely restoring a 13" like yours. I found it very helpful during my restore job.

South Bend 13" Restoration - Disassembly, Preparation for assembly - YouTube

Thanks

hsracer201 said:

Didn't the post '75's have a cam style clutch? My guess is a reproduction tag.

I don't know when they switched for all models, but I have a '62 Heavy 10 with a cam lever.

Click to expand...

Good catch. My 1966 SBL catalogue shows the 10, 13, 14 1/2 and 16 inch South Bends all with the cam style clutch. And the feeds/threads chart here is secured with a variety of fasteners suggesting it could be a replacement. MeanMachine 1980, what's the serial number? It's located at the tailstock end of the bed, on top between the front vee way and the flat way.

David

If the SN confirms it's a later model, I'd have some concern that the star clutch saddle is not original to the lathe.

old_dave said:

Good catch. My 1966 SBL catalogue shows the 10, 13, 14 1/2 and 16 inch South Bends all with the cam style clutch. And the feeds/threads chart here is secured with a variety of fasteners suggesting it could be a replacement. MeanMachine 1980, what's the serial number? It's located at the tailstock end of the bed, on top between the front vee way and the flat way.

David

Click to expand...

Hello David My 13" southbend is a 1978 serial number 15374T.

MeanMachine1980 said:

Hello David My 13" southbend is a 1978 serial number 15374T.

Click to expand...

Thank you for this information.
David

Hey all, sorry for abandoning the thread for a few days. Some updates:

I found the tensioner handle and that assembly went together beautifully. The picture that was posted also resolved my confusion about where the spring was supposed to go.

Serial number is 4955tkk12 which would indicate a 1955 date. The “employee owned” bit stuck out at me as well, it is probably a repro tag as was noted elsewhere in the thread. The bearing sleeves appear not to have been damaged by the expanders so that’s a relief.

I tig welded the threading dial bracket back together with some post heating, hope it holds with the cast iron

The next thing to do is order replace the oiling wicks so that the spindle can be remounted. In the meantime, the motor mounted up fine and spins the countershaft quietly so that should be good. I used slow speed on the VFD to spin the countershaft at a speed where i could relatively safely scrub the surface rust off the pulleys.

Thanks for everyone’s help so far, I’ll probably post more pictures tomorrow.

If anyone can explain to me how the wicks are removed from the headstock that would also be really awesome.

I don't believe the 13" is any different than this 10L pictured. The wicks are inside springs and they just come up out of the hole on either side circled in red. They should be visible and might even be sticking up out of the hole slightly. You may have to fish them out with a pick or something similar if they are stuck down flush with the hole. Your rebuild kit will have new wicks pre-wound in new springs.

How is it that new wipers, wicks and a paint job can be considered a "rebuild"? What about a re-scrape, all bushings and bearings? I guess it doesn't matter if it is accurate as long as it looks good.

TIGL said:

Hey all, sorry for abandoning the thread for a few days. Some updates:

I found the tensioner handle and that assembly went together beautifully. The picture that was posted also resolved my confusion about where the spring was supposed to go.

Serial number is 4955tkk12 which would indicate a 1955 date. The “employee owned” bit stuck out at me as well, it is probably a repro tag as was noted elsewhere in the thread. The bearing sleeves appear not to have been damaged by the expanders so that’s a relief.

I tig welded the threading dial bracket back together with some post heating, hope it holds with the cast iron

The next thing to do is order replace the oiling wicks so that the spindle can be remounted. In the meantime, the motor mounted up fine and spins the countershaft quietly so that should be good. I used slow speed on the VFD to spin the countershaft at a speed where i could relatively safely scrub the surface rust off the pulleys.

Thanks for everyone’s help so far, I’ll probably post more pictures tomorrow.

If anyone can explain to me how the wicks are removed from the headstock that would also be really awesome.

Click to expand...

Hello

When I restored my 13 I found the manual invaluable. I also purchased the whole felt and gasket kit but you can get the rebuild manual by itself. If clearly shows where everything goes, tells you the order of disassembly and reassembly. I would seriously consider it.

A member on this site sells them on ebay.

South Bend Lathe 13" - Rebuild Manual and Parts Kit (All Models) | eBay

MeanMachine1980 said:

Hello

When I restored my 13 I found the manual invaluable. I also purchased the whole felt and gasket kit but you can get the rebuild manual by itself. If clearly shows where everything goes, tells you the order of disassembly and reassembly. I would seriously consider it.

A member on this site sells them on ebay.

South Bend Lathe 13" - Rebuild Manual and Parts Kit (All Models) | eBay

Click to expand...

You may also want to pull the cone pully off the spindle to clean all the old hardened grease that got pumped in. My cone pully was literaly frozen to the spindle from old grease/oil.