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Thoughts on South Bend milling attachments?

Just a Sparky

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 2, 2020
Location
Minnesota
Can anyone who has had experience with milling on a South Bend lathe perhaps chime in with your thoughts on SB's milling attachments?

I find myself debating whether tracking one down would be in my interest or not. TL;DR: small 7" x 2-3/4" horizontal milling machine with little vertical clearance when vertical adapter is installed, no room to upgrade to a full-size vertical mill.

The interest here stems from the opportunity to gain additional work envelope on the 'Y' and 'Z' axes and being able to keep my horizontal mill more or less permanently configured for horizontal milling since that's the work it's most suited for. Their built-in 'Z' and 'Y' axis pivots do seem rather handy for milling angles, hex shapes, bevels, etc. And there's just so much more open space on my lathe - better lighting & visibility, ergonomics, more room to manipulate things, fully configurable 'Z' and 'X' power feeds, etc.

Are these milling attachments worth the trouble and expense in your guys' experience? Do you find yourselves using them from time to time or do they mostly collect dust?

For the 13" lathe attachments in particular, does anyone have a figure on their maximum 'Y' travel?

Thanks.
 
Can anyone who has had experience with milling on a South Bend lathe perhaps chime in with your thoughts on SB's milling attachments?

I find myself debating whether tracking one down would be in my interest or not. TL;DR: small 7" x 2-3/4" horizontal milling machine with little vertical clearance when vertical adapter is installed, no room to upgrade to a full-size vertical mill.

The interest here stems from the opportunity to gain additional work envelope on the 'Y' and 'Z' axes and being able to keep my horizontal mill more or less permanently configured for horizontal milling since that's the work it's most suited for. Their built-in 'Z' and 'Y' axis pivots do seem rather handy for milling angles, hex shapes, bevels, etc. And there's just so much more open space on my lathe - better lighting & visibility, ergonomics, more room to manipulate things, fully configurable 'Z' and 'X' power feeds, etc.

Are these milling attachments worth the trouble and expense in your guys' experience? Do you find yourselves using them from time to time or do they mostly collect dust?

For the 13" lathe attachments in particular, does anyone have a figure on their maximum 'Y' travel?

Thanks.

Using a lathe for milling is a giant PITA, set up time is x4 and for all that trouble the milling attachments flex so much you can't get a finish. Get a real mill.
 
I have to agree with moonlight. I do it typically in the winter if it's a small job because the mill is in the cold garage and the lathe is in the warm basement. Otherwise it's a pain as everything isn't rigid, the tool can easily dig in, twist the vise and generally screw up the work. If you do it get used to very shallow cuts and slow going.
 
If you're on Gilligan's Island and the milling attachment is all you've got, sure, but otherwise, using the horizontal with an endmill in the horizontal spindle would be vastly better. When I was growing up, I was limited to a milling attachment on a SB 9". It was a glorious day when I finally got myself a real mill.
 
I can imagine using a milling attachment to hold a live tool or some other weird thing, but putting a cutter in the headstock and actually milling with the thing is a PITA. Any MSO would be an improvement when it comes to millification.
 
I can comment on this since I got one that I am rather fond of. Would I rather have a Milling Machine or a nice Radial Drill? Damn straight! But this is sufficient in the mean time. Although mine is not a South Bend brand. It was made by a company called Numeric Products Company in St. Louis, MO. It was made for the military for field work where only a lathe was provisioned. I highly recommend if you can find one.

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I looked for a milling attachment off and on for a year or so and know that there are many different brands and styles of attachments for you to choose from. I would say if you buy "smart" you would not loose too much on the resale end if you decide it doesn't work for you.

You will have to lower your expectations for what it can provide you though. It's limited by rigidity of your machine and setup! If your machine is not in good shape you will get chatter, if your cutter is not sharp or the right type for what you are trying to do you will get chatter. If you are trying to work fast like a bridgeport youtube video you will fail.

Even then there are ways to mitigate the downsides. You'll want to make sure the one you choose can be locked down tight once you line up your planned operation and also understand how your dovetails can be adjusted.

The one I have replaces the quick change tool post and so it uses the X and Y of the machine and provides a Z axis with travel of about 5 inches. On the 16" lathe the Z travel extents are available but on a smaller lathe IDK.

As for setup time it really doesn't take that long but that is relative. If you have experience with messing around with lantern toolposts and swapping them and setting them up it's actually quite fast! If you are doing a multi-part or multi-operation project you may enjoy the mental planning part so you don't have to waste too much time swapping stuff on and off your machine. I am not running a business, just a hobby type guy, but I find that I enjoy the mental puzzle of planning the order of operations when I'm away from the machine but have something in mind.

I have used mine to clean up dovetails that I rough cut with a hacksaw, mill holes into a rounded surface, clean up edges of rough saw cuts, etc. I have been tinkering with the idea of a small shell mill setup to see how it functions but I keep putting it off. If I had a nice drill press with slow speeds I would use it less but that is the state of things.
 
I almost forgot....If you are using a decent toolpost system like Aloris, they have a large selection of tool holders that I have used to hold stock. It wasn't as rigid and enjoyable as the milling attachment I now have but worked in a pinch and I increased my supply of tool holders. If you go this route you will need to lower your expectations a little more but it can be done!
 
When all i had was a taiwan 30 RF mill-drill, i bought the SB casting kit from Metal Lathe Accessoried, and built it to use on the mill, for lathe turning tapers. With a few other parts, I was able to even do single point threading on short pieces for metric camera mounts and such. It has come in handy on a few occasions over the years, and a positionable auxilliary slide on various machines over the years. Don't think it has ever been used for milling on a lathe.

Milling Attachment (MLA-5

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smt
 
From what I've seen, when the milling attachments come up for sale, the sellers are pretty proud of them...

If you genuinely have need for a mill for small work, I'd recommend a mini or benchtop mill from Little Machine Shop or Precision Matthews. If you can find one, the old Clausing 8520's are great size for a small shop.

The cost of the milling attachments and limited utility you can get out of them just never made much sense to me. Perhaps better than nothing, but not by much...
 
I hope you don't mind me chiming in here. I have a little experience with regards to this aspect and especially on South Bends. This milling attachment comes as standard equipment on most Navy vessels that have to choose between a lathe a mill for space. As it turns out, almost always is the lathe chosen over a mill. Now, the Navy still needs milling capability on those vessels and has two options. One, this milling attachment and two, a Versa-Mill attachment. Neither are good options, especially on a light duty South Bend. Can the milling attachments work? Yes, but you are not going to be able to take large cuts with it. If there is any bit of wear in your machine, it will show up in your cuts. You have to be very conscience of your cutting direction and feed direction. I will honestly admit, having grown up in a machine shop, there are many times, where I had to cut a keyway or flat underway, and stood there dreaming of heavier duty lathes and proper milling machines. Now, do I have a milling attachment for my current lathe? Yes. I currently have a Versa-Mill style that sits over the taper attachment and can be pulled into place when needed. I do use it frequently to do cut off work and small indexing flats before transfer to a big milling machine. With that said, I do use an Axelson and Monarch as the base machine.

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Again, the issue here isn't cost; it's space. I've got the money, but not one iota of room to spare for another piece of cast iron. Even if I were inclined to buy a chinsy chi-com crapalloy mini mill, I have no place to put it. Not to mention I already have a real American made 'mini mill', which is the source of my grief in the first place. I'm not in the market for another small machine, nor any Asian ones of any description.

Some day I would love to upgrade to a full-sized American made milling machine of some description with DRO. But before that can happen, I will first have to part with my horizontal mill and small metal shaper to clear space for said full-size mill, leaving me with zero milling capabilities for the interim. A milling attachment for my lathe would remedy that. As was mentioned before, they seem to hold their value for better or worse, so flipping it would most likely only be a matter of shipping, sales tax and patience.

I don't need to hog material like the production guys do, nor do I need to pull off rapid set-ups like the job-shop guys do. I simply need enough versatility to get my projects done from start to finish without having to outsource basic operations or struggle with a pitiful 7 x 2-3/4 x 2-3/4" work envelope when vertical milling.

Do I struggle with mounting a 13" long arbor to a ~12" long single-slot table wherein my vise won't fit cross-wise? Or do I just clamp it into a milling attachment, dial the thing up to center and be done with it?

I guess the Gilligan's Island metaphor is apt for my situation. Can't get a bigger mill until I get rid of the smaller mill... can't get rid of the smaller mill until I have something to replace it with. Chicken and egg.
 
BTW, My post above was not meant to be critical.
It was just my assessment in the early 80's that instead of continuing to use a DP & cross slide table for milling and turning, an import with 28" table/ 24 x 8 table travels, 5" quill travel, x however tall under the spindle gave a lot of improvement, and that for the stuff i made including short but often stout turnings it cave me more facility in a small space than a lathe ever would. I actually made a lot of wood-working shaper cutterheads on it. Wedge gib, pocket gib, etc. for big cutters.

Movign back to your Q and further notes, i think a milling attachment would give a lot of versatility, if you mostly do smaller parts.
If you do "larger" parts primarily, (whatever large = in relationship to the size of the attachment) then it will not solve the problem.

Part of my point was that once such an attachment was in hand, if you built a suitable base for the DT plug, it can become a useful auxilliary slide on multiple other machines, for further multifarious, not to say nefarious purposes in a shop limited by space to acquire purpose built machines.

They do what they appear to do: run a small T-slot table, sometimes equipped with small vise jaws, up and down a failry accurate slide, with a fairly accurate leadscrew (over small travel) with a micrometer collar to keep track of position. The slide is lock-able. The slideways/table can be angle from a fixed base, in 2 planes with either the accuracy of the engraved scales & your accuity, or by sine bar methods. If that will carry the work or additional tool (small router or die grinder, say) you need (including clamping it); it will be a useful addition to your toolbox.

smt
 
Again, the issue here isn't cost; it's space. I've got the money, but not one iota of room to spare for another piece of cast iron.

Can I ask, have you looked into the Versa-Mil like thing I recommended? I do not recommend buying one, because of the price, but you could fully design and make your own. You can also find different versions on eBay for relatively cheap. I highly recommend that over a cross slide milling attachment. I built a very similar one for my South Bend 9A, when I had it, and it worked well. The reason I highly recommend that system over any other is that it changes where the rigidity is.
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Oh, and if you build it yourself, you can make it so the milling head/motor is removable and the base is a T-Slot Table. Then you can have both versions in one shot.

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Before I bought my Bridgeport knee mill, all I had was the milling attachment on my SouthBend 9C. I takes very little to setup and start milling. Limited y travel yes but it is not for big projects and you can be very creative. Precision? Within .001" easy. I built a lathe ball turner and dial indicator stop all on the mill attachment. Collets and good sharp endmills in two and four flute flavors is plenty. I won't argue its limitations but where there is a need and a will, there is a way. I enjoy using it when I need to: something intimate and satisfying about it. Hope this helps. If you can get one, I wouldn't hesitate at least to try and see if it works for your needs. Note: yes, i didn't have the spindle thread protector when making the dial indicator stop but made one soon after.

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There is a nice looking Palmgren 400 for sale in the for sale section here 300 shipped. Looks like it has a way to lock down the dovetails real good. My only question would be how it attaches to your machine although if your creative you could make it work I am sure. Maybe an upside down T-Nut type block and you could use it in place of a toolpost giving you the power feeds for lighter cuts! Not to mention the use of the graduated compound angles!
 
Before I bought my Bridgeport knee mill, all I had was the milling attachment on my SouthBend 9C. I takes very little to setup and start milling. Limited y travel yes but it is not for big projects and you can be very creative. Precision? Within .001" easy. I built a lathe ball turner and dial indicator stop all on the mill attachment. Collets and good sharp endmills in two and four flute flavors is plenty. I won't argue its limitations but where there is a need and a will, there is a way. I enjoy using it when I need to: something intimate and satisfying about it. Hope this helps. If you can get one, I wouldn't hesitate at least to try and see if it works for your needs. Note: yes, i didn't have the spindle thread protector when making the dial indicator stop but made one soon after.

Engmaxx--- that's not a factory SB milling attachment, the one you show in the pics looks to be a bit more versatile. What make is it? Is it modified in any way?
 
I honestly have no idea QuickChange as it came with the lathe and there is no manufacturer mark on it. I made no modifications to it. If someone figures it out, it would be cool to know who made it.
 
I'm in agreement with the consensus here that a milling attachment is a poor substitute for an actual mill. However, there are times, admittedly few and far between, when a milling attachment can perform machining tasks which a mill can't handle.

Here are a couple of cases in point:

1) I needed to do some machining on the end of my arbor press spindle. The part was too long to fit in the mill (obviously) but fit handily in the lathe, using the milling attachment. As a bonus, it was a simple matter to rotate the attachment 90 degrees for drilling & tapping a setscrew hole, without changing the height setting (see 1st and 2nd pictures.)

2) I needed to drill and tap a couple of holes in a custom engine stand that I was modifying. Granted, I could have laid them out and drilled & tapped by hand, but I wanted the locations to be accurate. I considered clamping to the drill press table, but my drill press is a bench model with insufficient clearance. Clamping in the milling attachment worked great (see 3rd pic,) though I must admit it's a two dollar setup to do a ten cent job. :o

Paula

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