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Trying to decide what lathe to buy, and help determining what this one is

kilohertz

Aluminum
Joined
Aug 11, 2018
Location
Slightly left of Vernon, BC
Hi Guys,

First post, my son has convinced me we need a lathe as he won top honors in grade 10 metal work this year, so the search has started. It's one of the few tools we don't have in our shop and will be a great addition. We have lots of heavy machinery to keep in tune, dozers, Bobcats excavator etc. as well as we hobby on many types of cars. He just wants something to be creative with and I am all for it.

So I have found a South Bend 183-C at a local auction, closes this week, but it's already $800 with 4 days to go so I feel it will go over $1K at this rate. It's just bare bones 183-C, no tooling, one small 3 jaw chuck, and as I know very little about lathes, I can't really describe it any better. It's also a 5 hour drive from here so I can't view it beforehand.

Anyway, that is the first one I have found, the one I need help ID'ing is in the picture below. I have scanned thru a few old catalogs from the 40's and 50's but can't seem to nail it down. I am pretty sure I can see South Bend on the front door, it's pretty long, looks about 60-70" and at least 10" swing. It's 3 phase, and only an hour from here, just found out about today so haven't had a chance to go see it yet and have no idea what the asking price is for it. Not advertised, it's a neighbors friend at his machine shop. I am currently working my way thru various articles and books on what to look for in a lathe, wear points etc., it would just be nice to know what model this is.

Your thoughts? The first one (grey) is the one nearby, the red one is the 183-C at the auction site 5 hours from here.

Cheers
 

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If you have room for excavators and the intention of working on them, I'd find a bigger lathe. $/lb they're cheaper and you probably have heavy enough equipment to handle them.
 
Ill second that for sure.. Thought a 12" would do to start with but found that not to be the case real quick.
 
OKay which lathe do you thing is too small, the red 183-C or the unknown longer one, and which dimension would need to be bigger, swing or length? Our possible issue is shop space, I don't know how much bigger than the grey one, we could fit in the shop. I am not too concerned about working on the equipment stuff, it's more for my son to keep his interest up in metalwork.

Thanks!
 
We are at a disadvantage here in B.C. when it comes to machine tools. Good used ones are relatively thin on the ground.
Personally I'd pass on anything that old--yeah, they may be "better than nothing" but not by much. With a little patience
you can find better stuff. Spread the word, watch Craigslist and Ebay and eventually something will pop up.

Where in B.C. are you? There are a number of used machinery dealers in the Lower Mainland. It's a good idea to stay in
touch with them. Sometimes they'll have stuff available that they don't want to put on the floor--if you buy it before they have
to handle it you can sometimes get a bit of a deal. If you need a list of the dealers ask and I'll post a list...
 
Mmmm okay, I thought these old lathes were worth restoring, or looking for and using, assuming they are still in good condition. What would you recommend if not a classic South Bend? I am about 5 hour drive from Vancouver, in the Okanagan, and there is NOT much up here. Yes, pls PM me a list of lower mainland dealers, I'll call them and put out the word.

Thanks
 
The green South Bend lathe is either a 14.5" or a 16". You can tell by the motor housing "bell". It is either a 7'(d) or 8' (e). It is probably pre '52. I think it would have a double tumbler gearbox after that.
The nice thing about South Bend's is that parts are somewhat available at somewhat affordable prices. A 14.5" or 16" S.B. will do what a Monarch or Lodge and Shipley can do only slower. You wont "hog" off metal with a S.B. like you can with the other,heavier, lathes.
A S.B. belt drive lathe is a little more forgiving if you make a mistake....think of 16 year old son being careless just once. My .02c. Good luck to you and your son. PB
 
Mmmm okay, I thought these old lathes were worth restoring, or looking for and using, assuming they are still in good condition.

Hmm, there seesm to be an entire subforum here filled with people who think they are worth it. Packard Bill is right, though my old '41 13" will peel off decent amounts of blue chips using carbide tooling.
Old isn't the question so much as condition. And even if the ways are a bit worn by the chuck, it doesn't make an incredible amount of difference in diameter.
I got my SB as a "learner" lathe, and just haven't found the one to replace it with.. 20 years on.
Another comment: Fresh paint doesn't make a lathe any better at turning metal. It's colloquially called a "krylon rebuild". Adds to the cost, but that's about it.
One thing to consider is the diameter of work your son wants to do. If it's small stuff, neither one of those may be the machine due to spindle speed limits. Small stuff wants higher RPM;s than larger stuff to maintain a constant feet per minute cutting speed. Look up a cutting speed chart. A bit slow is not nearly as bad as too fast though.
Here's a couple articles from a very honest guy who was a machine dealer in Pennsylvania. Good reading.
Advice on buying a Lathe
Adventures With Klunkers
 
Awesome guys, thank you, appreciate the input.

Well, as for projects, to start would certainly be smallish, he was making rings at school, but larger items could be in order as well, I need to make pins, bushings etc for machinery, say 2"-4" diameter, I guess still small.

As mentioned, this will be our first lathe, so I don't have a problem getting one, then if it's not right, look for a different one, but would prefer to find something close the first time. :-) There is a Sharp Machine Tools, (no relation to Sharp in the US) 12x37 closing auction tonight, currently at $500, but again 10 hours round trip. Looks good but I am leery of buying something site unseen.

Another thought, and I know this should go in the VFD converter forum, but I have a Bourns pretty high end VFD which takes single phase and converts to 3 phase, I currently use it on the log splitter I built, but could wire it to the lathe. I run the 7HP motor at 90 HZ, about 2900 RPM, and it works awesome. I know 3 phase motors can operate much faster than 1750 RPM, so could the older lathes handle running faster, or is the gear train the limiting factor?

Anyway, certainly appreciate all of your input.

Cheers
 
could the older lathes handle running faster, or is the gear train the limiting factor?

Spindle bearings - all older SBs are "PLAIN" (not anti-friction ball or roller) and have definite limits - the bigger the lathe the larger the journals and the slower the top speed

Gearing just HOWLS - so you stick in ear plugs - the bearings are the things you would like not to do-in.
 
Spindle bearings - all older SBs are "PLAIN" (not anti-friction ball or roller) and have definite limits - the bigger the lathe the larger the journals and the slower the top speed

Gearing just HOWLS - so you stick in ear plugs - the bearings are the things you would like not to do-in.

My 1943 16" runs on a VFD which I have parameter-limited to a max of 90 Hz. This yields just under 1800 RPM at the spindle, which some will say is too high for plain bronze bearings on a journal that measures 2-7/8" diameter at the oil film interface.

I'm very conscious of the physics involved and the dangers of running it overclocked. The rare occasion that I do run it up above the factory top end of ~1000 RPM, I keep my hand on the bearing caps to feel for heat creeping in. So far, for a few minutes of high speed finishing on small diameters, it has not been an issue. I do think heavy side pressure cutting loads at this speed would be a real risk due to cavitation and oil film breakdown.

For the work the OP describes above (jewelry and farm implement pins 2"-4" OD), pretty much ANY Southbend lathe will suffice, even a small 9" or 10K. They just won't peel 400 thou off the OD of a 1045 steel bar in one pass like my 16 will. :)
 
Well, as for projects, to start would certainly be smallish, he was making rings at school,

I made "our" wedding rings out of a titanium round on a 20" Lodge and Shipley from around 1921 many years ago.* So it can be done. I've had a string of sub 1" diameter brass parts that have to look good lately, no issues on the 13.

*It was all I had to work with. They came out fine, other than I missed the size on her finger, seems it was a bit large and kept falling off while she was out of town.
 
Hi all,

Wow, thanks for all the thoughts and ideas. So many things to comment on, sorry if I don't touch on them all. My son isn't sure what size the lathe was he used at school, will find out in about a month when he returns. Glad to hear someone else has VFD'd their old SBL, and I'm not thinking too far outside the box.

I let the Sharp go last night, bid up to $700 but with no spare parts available, and absolutely no support, and 10 hour drive....

As for price I'd pay, well less is best but if a really good machine were to pass in front of me, one that was perfect, minimal wear etc. $1500-$2000, a pig in a poke, $500.

Thanks for the Kijiji link, yes I saw that one too, that is a very long 2 day round trip with hotel stay-over etc. 12 hours each way. Yikes.

I have put feelers out to some of my old machine shop buddies on the coast, as well as I am calling around all of our local machine shops...I know they are out there...just need to find them.

That mystery SBL I posted at the beginning is still available, they haven't decided on price yet. So far, that is my pick, as well they have a very cool looking milling machine...but that is another topic/thread. :-)

Again, thanks everyone, really appreciate the input and guidance.

Cheers
 








 
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