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Used spindle, how to tell if it is OK before installation?

Strouty

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Location
Portland, Maine
I bought a used spindle from eBay, reputable seller, but there was an odd delay in shipping. The package tracking went MIA for a few days. It is supposed to be delivered tomorrow, I will be interested to see how good or bad the packaging is. I would like to check it over before installation, any good ways to check things? The lathe is currently operational, only reason I am swapping it out is to move from a D1-3 mount to a D1-4 mount.

Thanks in advance.

I just hope that I don't have to measure this in TRI, total runout inflicted........
 
...I just hope that I don't have to measure this in TRI, total runout inflicted........


Well.. what else? Just "eyeball" it and feel for the odd burr to stone-off?

:)

PM has examples of spindle and bearing evaluation using surface plate, high-precision vee-blocks, DI reading in tenths, half-tenths, or even millionths per-division ranges, "clean room" and temp-controlled environments, even. You tube has a few decent ones as well - some from pro bearing & spindle rebuilders.

All that said, there are time concerns as well as available equipment and skill to set up and use it.

Unless there is obvious damage, your fastest, cheapest, most pragmatic "test set up" is probably going to be making the swap and letting the lathe itself become the test fixture to tell you - with a less-costly DI - that it is "good enough".

Or not.

Mind.. PM also has threads covering evaluation and touch-up of the D1 taper and flat. But that's done on the lathe IF even needed at all.

2CW
 
So you are saying I could overdo things or just try it out? ;)

I was figuring this would probably be my best bet, assuming the packaging looks acceptable.
 
So you are saying I could overdo things or just try it out? ;)

I was figuring this would probably be my best bet, assuming the packaging looks acceptable.

Well.. "overdo" depends on what you already have handy and have experience with. Or have to go find, figure out, set-up, invest some time using.

Best case, knowing you have to search again - or not - can save you the lathe being down whilst apart. Your call how much value vs risk that has.

"D1-(anything)" .. I'd guess modern-generation SB (branded) Asian-made, not classical Indiana cone-head, but even so, not as if it were a Monarch Series 90, ATW Pacemaker, nor a Herringbone Sidney as far as spindle swap labour.
 
It is used occasionally as a toy, so tolerances are not as tight as most of you guys would like. Honestly I will have to check out the runout of the existing spindle so I can have something to compare.
 
The packaging is going to be the least of your worries, a lathe spindle is not particularly delicate, ( without the bearings), and would not likely have been ruined during transit unless it has been dragged through sand and seawater, then used as a hammer for a rock drill during the two day delay.
Years of interrupted cuts and grinding operations on tool steel with frequent changes of tooling, without cleaning the taper, D1 pockets or cams is more likely to ruin a spindle
 
Most lathe spindles are so tough that if it spins smooth and has no end play it should be as good as when it shipped. A hard drop right on one end might deeper seat the bearings and give it some unwanted end play..that likely could be adjusted back to correct. IMHO.
 
If you a V block set the bearing race area's in the V Blocks, buy some cheap one if you don't have any with a large opening so the spindle sits about 1/2 way up the ramps/ Then put a .0005" or .0001" indicator on the spindle taper or straight and rotate the spindle slowly and look for run out. That is how I check Gleason spindles when I rebuild them . Same principal on all machines. You may have to put a angle block behind the spindle to keep it from moving backwards as you turn it. Or take it to a local grinding shop and have them measure it. Grinding shops have a lot of V blocks as it is part of the tooling they use all the time, they may not charge you as I wouldn't if you asked me.
 
It is used occasionally as a toy, so tolerances are not as tight as most of you guys would like. Honestly I will have to check out the runout of the existing spindle so I can have something to compare.

Coupla things:

- Rob has the best suggestion. Set it up 'tween centers and check it BEFORE you pull the old spindle.

- Cyanide & Buck are dead-on as well. A spindle is one of the toughest parts of any lathe relative to <whatever> the rest of said lathe, great or humble might be. It HAS to be tough.

- Rich's approach is pretty standard, doesn't absolutely require a surface-plate. In theory any stable surface would do - even the lathe bed, a mill's table, etc.

Even so, it is more cumbersome and tedious than 'tween centers even if you DO have a decent surface plate.
 
why replace D1-3? (Curious)

I would have LOVED to have been able to replace my 10EE's D1-3 with D1-4! At least before I acquired so much D1-3, "nose art" it no longer much matters, anyway.

D1-3 is certainly strong enough. For me, it's all about the historically more common, hence easier to find - or find at lower cost - D1-4 goods in the used-but-OK marketplace.
 
Since you are on a South Bend forum, What South Bend has D1-3 or a D1-4 spindle?

D1-3 machines normally have about 1 3/8" through the spindle and D1-4's normally have 1.5" through the spindle.

Most SB's are sleeve bearings not ball or roller.
 
Since you are on a South Bend forum, What South Bend has D1-3 or a D1-4 spindle?

D1-3 machines normally have about 1 3/8" through the spindle and D1-4's normally have 1.5" through the spindle.

Most SB's are sleeve bearings not ball or roller.

SB13s could be ordered with D1-4 spindle noses.
 
The lathe I have is a model FOURTEEN, came with the D1-3 but the D1-4 was an option. From everything I have read, the two spindles use all the same bearings and retaining pieces. We will see once I dig into it.

Reason for swapping is that I recently purchased some “D1-3” equipment and it was all D1-4 as the sellers (yes multiple) didn’t know how to tell the difference. Then I found that I had a ROHM 3 jaw chuck that was also D1-4. A couple of the sellers told me to keep the item and refunded my money due to shipping costs and so I decided to see if I could make an adapter, when I searched for D1-4 spindles, I found one for my lathe, almost didn’t believe it, I figured I would never be able to find one.

It arrived looking fine and it was packed very well, I am able to put it between centers and indicate it, so I guess that will be my first step.

Thanks for the input.
 
I would be less worried about the spindle and more about the bearing.

Not familiar with this model, but a LOT of the time if you attempt to press the front bearing off a spindle it gets ruined in the process...so if it didn't come with the bearing still on and it's also good, don't try pressing the bearing off the D1-3 spindle and re-use it on the D1-4 spindle.

Did you check with Ted to ask if the headstock casting will accept a swap?
 
I guess I am not sure who Ted is and why I should have checked with him. I don’t understand why there would be an issue if the PNs are interchangeable, including all the bearings. This one has the bearing still pressed on, seems to be in good order.

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Box was packed right, no damage to the cardboard.

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There appears to be a typo on the parts list, but other than that it looks like it should be a direct fit. Guess I will find out.

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So I figured out who Ted is, but it never crossed my mind that the parts might not be interchangeable. I am not even sure how I can actually find out now without trying it.
 








 
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