What do you think of Grizzly buying SB name? - Page 8
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  1. #141
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    One more suggestion - Sell the lathe beds only, I'm sure there are a number of people with whipped out beds that would love to upgrade.

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    Quote Originally Posted by William E Williams View Post
    One more suggestion - Sell the lathe beds only, I'm sure there are a number of people with whipped out beds that would love to upgrade.
    Wonderful suggestion:! BUT remember a worn bed also implies a worn saddle and perhaps a worn tailstock.

    Jim B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim B. View Post
    Wonderful suggestion:! BUT remember a worn bed also implies a worn saddle and perhaps a worn tailstock.

    Jim B.
    Yeah, but given a new, straight, bed some Moglice will take care of the saddle and tailstock!! Easy!

    Pete

  4. #144
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    Alg4884 - We moved over 10,000 different parts from LeBlond. We expect to carry them for quite some time and should be ready to start shipping them sometime next week.

    DConway00 - I like the Boxford graduation ring and will probably use it. Thanks.

    RF - Not too many South Bend machines will be available by July, but Grizzly will be a large stocking dealer so you can expect to get the full line from them, and from other dealers thoughout the world.

    Macona - seriously thinking of the D1-3 for the 10K and the D1-4 for the Heavy 10

    AccessDbGuy - SB will not be selling direct so cannot take deposits. As far as the bed height goes, got that covered. I am 6' tall and that is the first thing I noticed.

    William E Williams - we might offer the beds by themselves if they are an exact fit. They will be fair priced. Of course, we will be glad to sell a complete tailstock and carraige to match. We do not offer regrinding services anymore.

    Regarding Lady Paula - I was already thinking along those lines, but at the next level. My plan was to have her test drive one of the first machines to come into the country. I haven't asked her yet because it is a little early.

    We are quite capable of doing all the testing in-house, but having a good South Bend user with high expectations test one of our machines would be good for us.
    Last edited by Papagrizzly; 04-01-2009 at 01:40 AM.

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    ill test any south bend you send me . ill even store it for you, free of cost for 20+ years .

  6. #146
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    Centre height

    I asked here ..and we did a bit of a survey

    the answer to ideal centre height was found to be 48-49 inches....for todays modern man.

    all the best.markj

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    Quote Originally Posted by RF View Post
    Papagrizzly, Part of our yearly 4th of July trip is stopping by the Muncy, Pa. Grizzly location on the way to Wellsboro for family party. Am overjoyed to hear of South Bend's ressurrection, I wish you much success!!

    I realize they are separate companies but will the new South Bend Lathes be on display at Grizzly locations?

    My accessory for the wish list, the wooden collet box.

    That would be a simple make in my wood shop.
    Tour

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    Wink

    PAPAGRIZZLY I think you really should read the following thread about customer service. Just a heads up.

    http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...d.php?t=178302

  9. #149
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    What do I think? Well, there are too many and not enough Asians lathes as it is. Too many in that they are truly inferior to decent old American iron, yet not enough, as the more that are imported, the fewer lathe shoppers to compete for the used American iron.

    I have seen the ”superior” Taiwan machinery from various makers, and only the very most expensive are actually any better. I have yet to see any Grizzly metal machinery that I would own. I went to the big showroom in PA to look at the 9x49 mills when I was in the market for one. Was underwhelmed by everything I saw in there. What was absolutely the worst were the accessories-drill chucks, live center, tool posts, boring bars, etc. Total crap. I know everyone has to decide what level of quality they are willing to accept, but man, that stuff was awful.

    So here we go-the same company making different lathes with different badges and we are supposed to get excited? There is nothing “South bend” about them but the names and design. The problem with the Grizzly machinery is not the design, but rather materials and workmanship. The manufacturing and materials will be Asian, and unless the Heavy 10 sells for $10k or more, then the quality will not be that great. And I shudder to think about the chucks and centers that will be supplied with these Taiwan lathes. I am guessing it will be lower-mid quality Indian or mainland Chinese.

    For what these lathes will cost you could go out and buy a couple of REAL South Bends or a Monarch or something. And this is definitely not a “buy American” thing. I would love to own several imported lathes, none of which are Asian. I have an Asian lathe already and will be shedding it shortly. And it is 10 years old when the quality was better.

    So what do I think? Why in the world would I get excited about another Asian import with a vanity nameplate? Now if you could put me onto a cherry REAL Heavy 10 with a long hardened bed, well THEN I would get excited!!!

  10. #150
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    You haven't read all paps answers Marc .
    #
    Sounds like the guy is doing is utmost to improve ..
    He has said they will have hardened beds
    He has said that they will have lots of improvements ..
    Such as top makes like SKF ball bearing headstock bearings

    He as asked here on the forum what every one wants out of them ..and what ways, he can make them better.

    He has listened and is taking advice ...as as far as it looks ..he's going with that advice .

    The fellow seems to know where he is coming from and where he is going too ...and i sure commend him for that .my hats off to him .

    all the best.markj

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    No, to the contrary-I did read it. I also know what he says about equipment he sells right now and it does not match up with what is sold through the web site and showrooms. There is absolutely nothing in the world wrong with selling to a lower price point. But this papabear or whatever he calls himself sells low quality stuff and passes it off as great stuff. Luckily for him his typical customer is not really into machinery and often does not know the difference. THAT is where I have the problem. If he is doing that now, why should I think it will be different when he starts selling new lathes under a vanity badge? The same old story, just a different shape to the lathes. I am basing all of my opinions on my own firsthand experience, as opposed to listening to a salesman's pitch and assuming he is being 100% truthful with me.

    THAT is why I say unless the Heavy 10 costs north of $10, it will be just like the current Grizzly line. Can the Asians make good stuff? YOU BET! But it costs more, just as quality costs more regardless of country of origin. And all of this talk you read these days about made in XYZ factory where they make Product Q. That is completely meaningless to anyone with a single day of production experience. The same shops make stuff that is top notch, some just passes muster, and some does not meet spec. These are now being sold to lemmings in the US who think they are getting the top of the line just because it was made in the same building as a limited amount of good product.

    Quality costs money. Period. This guy is a salesman and he is using the same sales lines currently used with his regular Grizzly line that does not meet his lofty rhetoric.

    One good thing I will say even when he does produce more Asian low end lathes for US import-at least the will be grey and not have right angles everywhere.

    And what is all of this talk of “reasonable bed grinding prices?” Folks, it is expensive to be in that business. It is currently being done at a reasonable rate. If you do not think so, then go open a shop and see how much it costs you to do it. Those people doing the bed grinding are making less money than the typical person who surfs this site while they are on their boss’ clock.

  12. #152
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    maybe so ..
    from reading into it ..
    looks like the grizzly will be his bread and butter ...and the south-bend is flagship range ...like Toyota and Lexus ..but not quite if you know what i mean .

    all the best.markj

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    Default My .02

    I believe at the end of day there will be alot of disapointed poeple. If the "new" south bends are high quality the price will be to high. If the price is right which I believe it will have to be to move units in thier showrooms the quality will not be what poeple are looking forward too. And lastly is parts for old south bends after reading all the posts on this thread this will be the biggest downer.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by aboard_epsilon View Post
    And lastly is parts for old south bends after reading all the posts on this thread this will be the biggest downer.
    Yep! Sounds like all parts prices are in for a drastic increase.

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    Originally Posted by aboard_epsilon
    And lastly is parts for old south bends after reading all the posts on this thread this will be the biggest downer.






    hey...its not my quote ...now i will never get the southbend t-shirt and hat ..you ruined it for me

    all the best.markj

  16. #156
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    The reason Southbend and other American lathe makers are out of business is because Americans would not buy their products. The 10L when last available a few years ago was 20, 000 US $ or so. Did any of you Asian critics buy them?, No!

    Go buy a new 10EE , or a HLHV, they are American.

    The Tiawanese HLHV clones I have seen seem very nice for the money. If the new Southbends are built with that kind of quality, they will be very nice.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by quasi View Post
    The reason Southbend and other American lathe makers are out of business is because Americans would not buy their products. The 10L when last available a few years ago was 20, 000 US $ or so. Did any of you Asian critics buy them?, No!

    Go buy a new 10EE , or a HLHV, they are American.

    The Tiawanese HLHV clones I have seen seem very nice for the money. If the new Southbends are built with that kind of quality, they will be very nice.

    I would urge you to carefully read the posts. The issue is not country of origin and that has been plainly stated by some such as myself. The issue is about quality and price. The HLVH clones that are good are $15-25k, with the higher prices being the higher quality level and th elower priced ones definitely not as good. As has been stated here, there is no doubt at all that very good lathes can be made in Taiwan. But you will pay for them, so a new high quality “South Bend” vanity badge lathe in Heavy 10 configuration is going to cost 3+ times what the typical 13x40 Grizzly sells for today. And if they were truly top of the line tool room quality then the price would be $25k or so.

    It makes no difference if a lathe is made in the USA, Germany, Brazil, Taiwan, or wherever, quality will cost you a lot more. Period. This has nothing at all to do with national pride and everything to do with the reality that you do get what you pay for. A closer reading of the previous posts will show you that point has been made more than once. Well, in the posts that have not been deleted anyway. This is not about ”Asian critics,” but rather critics of people who sell low quality and try to pass it off as top shelf. It is in black and blue on the computer screens of those who choose to carefully read the posts.

  18. #158
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    I have been staying out of this because I don't think Paula want this kind of discussion but now I am forced to comment.
    15 years ago I bought a Grizzly cabinet table saw, a Z series top of the line saw. It was 1/2 the price of a Delta equivalent. It has never given me any trouble and always done what I asked it to.
    Yes some of the accessories were POS. The supplied blade was useless but for $900 I would not expect a $125 blade.
    However its a far site better than the Junk HD, an American company, is fostering on the public.
    The weak side is the rip guide which was a Woodstock (no longered offered) a knockoff Beesmire (sp) which is offered on the lower cost model would be better.

    Now I have two SB's a 9" change gear and a 10L. If Grizzly provides knock offs at 1/2 the price of the last SB's with the same quality as the saw I have I would be happy.

    Would I buy one? well I have two SB's do I need a third??

    What if I did not have two? Well the fact that Grizzly made it would not stop me and might make me look closer based on MY saw. Still given a new Grizzly SB clone at $10K and an old SB in good condition at (say) $4K it would point me to the old SB. But then I paid $18 for an 1895 Springfield shaper and so far I have put at least $900 back into it but that's part of what my hobby is about. If I need a NEW lathe NOW I would go for the knockoff. but I dont and never will so its Olde Iron for me but not because SB knockoffs are bad, and NO ONE KNOWS THAT AS YET, but just because that my preference.

    Lets give the guy (Papagrizzly) a tiny bit of air to try to do right.



    Jim B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim B. View Post
    Lets give the guy (Papagrizzly) a tiny bit of air to try to do right.
    I agree completely.
    Papagrizzly is taken on a huge undertaking, trying to right the wrongs of the past few years of South Bend history is not going to be easy.

    he is trying to resurrect the company that for all intents and purposes no longer existed. apparently the previous owners did not wish to do more than sail over priced parts, which only a few of us could afford.

    Even if it does not achieve our expectations of the South Bend quality, he is trying. And I for one applaud his effort.

    yes the gristly company did have quality problems in the past, especially when they were just getting started. But over the years they have improved their quality and customer service, and I am sure that he has learned a lot from running the grisly company.

    hopefully he will put that knowledge to good use now that he has the South Bend lathe company.

    he is a businessman, and apparently knows how to run a business of this type. All we can do is give him all of our suggestions and wait and see what happens. he is going down a difficult road, but let's not make it more difficult for him.

    promacjoe

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10KPete View Post
    Yeah, but given a new, straight, bed some Moglice will take care of the saddle and tailstock!! Easy!

    Pete
    And a new hardways bed with a worn saddle & tailstock is better than a worn bed with a worn saddle & tailstock.

    Another suggestion - Sell a Moglice Kit w/ the bed!


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