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What size test bar to get?

Domodude17

Aluminum
Joined
Aug 14, 2017
I'm looking at ordering some drill rod to make a test bar when I get my lathe set up. I do have a steady rest, but was debating getting a rod that would just fit through the spindle to save some hassle. What is the max size that I could fit through a 9A spindle? I think I remember hearing somewhere that 3/4" was the max size that would fit through.

As an aside, I only currently have a 3 jaw chuck set up. I have a 4 jaw, but I need to make a back plate for it. I'm starting to think that I would be better off by using some centers in the headstock and tailstock to get it close, and then make the back plate. Then make the test bar once I can use the 4 jaw to make sure it's spot on. I don't yet know what kind of runout my 3 jaw has. Thoughts?
 
Exactly what are you trying to do here? Why do you need a test bar, how are you going to use it, for what purpose? I think you are making things tougher on yourself than they need to be. Any check you could want to perform(except checking roundness) can be done with a homemade test bar and the results will be identical.
 
Thoughts?
You have a 4-J. No longer matters what TIR the 3-J exhibits.

Good enough - and usually it IS if you have enough stock to assure there is enough material to make the cuts to hit any given spec - just USE it.

When not good enough? Mount the 4-J.

That simple. No real work. No real worry.

Test bars? yah. You can make one. But "why?"

I bought mine from Brian Miller. Value-for-money because I can't make one as good for his price. 10EE, #12 Jarno spindle taper. Serious lathe. Serious goals. Serious good bar. He make then for SB's, too.

No "chuck" is involved for what those are used for.

Read more before you spend more money.

Plenty of lore. "Right here on PM".
 
I would use between centers for dialing the tailstock in wit your test bar. Test bars are really nice to have, i wouldnt make my own, i would just get a piece of 1"-1.5" diameter ground mild steel bar, drill rod would work, but i think ground would be tighter, not 100% on that. Test bar works great for setting up steady and follower rests. If your doing tight tolerance parts 3 jaw isnt the way to go, you really do need to setup your independent 4 jaw. How much runout is in a 3 jaw scroll chuck it depends, you can roll your part around to the right spot and get a totally different reading from spot to spot.
 
Thermite, Brian Miller? Is he a PM'er, does he have a website?

Both. Although the website was wonky for over a year before finally being re-done a year or two back.

I shall have to dig my files for it, as there are a lot turners and millers surnamed Miller who have websites.

:)

Test bars and regrinding of centres was not all he was doing. Looked to be a general services precision machine shop AFAICS.

I have NO idea if he has staff, nor how many - lots of PM'ers do not. There might be times he is busy and doesn't respond right away. Not even sure if he is still active. Some of us retire. Twice, in my case.

Back when I have had a recce..... files are under another UID.
 
Both. Although the website was wonky for over a year before finally being re-done a year or two back.

I shall have to dig my files for it, as there are a lot turners and millers surnamed Miller who have websites.

:)

Test bars and regrinding of centres was not all he was doing. Looked to be a general services precision machine shop AFAICS.

I have NO idea if he has staff, nor how many - lots of PM'ers do not. There might be times he is busy and doesn't respond right away. Not even sure if he is still active. Some of us retire. Twice, in my case.

Back when I have had a recce..... files are under another UID.

Thomas beat me to it:

Products – Miller Machine and Fabrication
 
Thanks Thermite, yeah I need to get with the times, at least he has a website, we still don't. I don't need them right away, so I can definitely wait, but they sould be nice to have. Retire, you mean death? That is if your self employed 😃.

Thanks Thomas and Monarchist, appreciate it.
 
Thanks Thermite, yeah I need to get with the times, at least he has a website, we still don't. I don't need them right away, so I can definitely wait, but they sould be nice to have.
There's a short ton of discussion - even heated - about test bars, but the long and short of it is a good bar has lots of uses. Older lathe, lots of dings in the D1-3, bore as well, not good for a precision DTI.

Get the bore de-burred / stoned, blue the fit, now you have another "plus". A really smooth and really true surface you can put an indicator against to vet the bearings, & c.

The bar. Not the bore. A depression is no barrier to a good fitting taper. It STILL ain't kind to a ten-millionths per-division DI. Nor even the 20-millionths one.

Johnny-Jump-up sez: "Fool! just turn a bar of 6061 and it will BE true and smooth!"

Yeah. Sure. Lessee. The bed is THERE.. the HS is HERE. The motor is in the other room. Should be a new set of belts in the drawer....

And the G-D "shiney wood" is out on the carport with the carbide-tipped carpentry tools where it belongs! That weak-ass birdsnesty crap is for making the reducer for pyrotechical redox reactions, thermobaric bombs, solid-fuel rockets, and paint pigments.

Oh, yes. A bit under 4,000 lbs of it called a 2005 XJ8-L. That, and a bit of oven wrap, is all the loominum I need, actually.

:)


Steel. Or a Bronze. Thanks.

"Hacker's Law" applies:

Life is too DAMNED short to drink bad wine, use slow computers, machine shiney wood, or share a blanket with a bitch!
 
I believe your spindle taper is MT-3. Test bars are also readily available on eBay in all sizes. As thermite says, the use of test bars is heatedly debated here. I have them is all kinds of sizes. They are very useful for many things and well worth owning. As an example, I also them to check tailstock alignment and to tram the head on my Bridgeport clone.

Take the case where you are cutting a taper on your lathe. You don't know why. Any misalignment in the parallelism of the spindle line and lathe bed will create a taper. So before any correction can be made, you have to know in which direction the spindle is out of plane with the bed. I don't know how to determine that without a test bar.
 
I don't know how to determine that without a test bar.

The "heat" need not re-enter. Please!

A point I had stressed in an older thread is that no matter WHAT tool or method, or procedure, or sequence of methods one uses to "indicate" there IS a problem, no tool or method FIXES the problem it "indicates" exists.

All it does is cause a wise person to say "this ain't RIGHT!'.

Now .... of course, more than one device or procedure is probably going to be needed BEFORE one can be sure of "not right JUST HOW?" and just what options exist that CAN be used to "fix" the "just how".

If all one knows is "scraping" we hear "that has to be scraped back to.."

Well. Sometimes it does..

Sometimes we just need to go for a good s**t and ponder while sitting on the thinking time-machine how easy or hard it is to JF LIVE with it, as-is - and put our time and money into something with a better payback for the effort required.
 
I'm looking at ordering some drill rod to make a test bar when I get my lathe set up. I do have a steady rest, but was debating getting a rod that would just fit through the spindle to save some hassle. What is the max size that I could fit through a 9A spindle? I think I remember hearing somewhere that 3/4" was the max size that would fit through.

As an aside, I only currently have a 3 jaw chuck set up. I have a 4 jaw, but I need to make a back plate for it. I'm starting to think that I would be better off by using some centers in the headstock and tailstock to get it close, and then make the back plate. Then make the test bar once I can use the 4 jaw to make sure it's spot on. I don't yet know what kind of runout my 3 jaw has. Thoughts?

You would use a test bar to help get your lathe set up. Trying to make one to test your own accuracy wouldn't work out.

The test bar will help you see how close to dead center your head stock and tail stock are pointing at each other. Also using one in head stock, and another in tail stock, will help you see how close to true that both head stock and tail stock are to the ways. Instead of tilted up or down slightly, or side to side.

You'll also see how much wear on ways, as usually close to chuck is wore down a little more, but as saddle moves away from chuck, it will gradually rise.

Trying to use a dead center in each, may get you at center at a specific spot, but you won't know if either head stock or tail stock is tilted or true to ways. And as head stock and tail stock move away from each other the in-accuracy would grow. With test bars you indicate off the side of shafts to see how true to ways you are.

Also a test bar in spindle will let you see if you have any run out.

You don't use a test bar in a chuck, a four jaw chuck can be adjusted to get your work close to spinning without appearing out of round regardless. For a test bar, you would remove chuck, and end of spindle should be tapered. Test bar would be put into that taper. Roll spindle by hand with dial indicator mounted on saddle to indicate off test bar. Also move saddle back and forth the length of test bar.

Depending on readings, you may shim headstock, or one end of head stock. And also make adjustment to tail stock, be it add or remove shims, or shift it side to side of it's base. But the general idea would be to get everything pointed at center, as well as close to true to ways as possible. The closer everything gets to dead center and true to ways, the more accurate your work will turn out.

Not sure your spindle thread, on a 9a I believe, but buying a partially machined back plate on ebay, or such is ok. the threads are already done. You just cut it down and true face to fit whatever chuck you want, maybe cut a boss for chuck to sit on.
 
and put our time and money into something with a better payback for the effort required.

Exactly!
Like machine gunning a shit ton of posts on PM under 2 of my 3 nics and talking to myself occasionally ;)

--------------------------

I think test bars are great, if you want to save time when knowing what youre doing. For most mortals with half a clue chucking up a bar and turning collars can show you where the HS is pointing (and allow you to set up a precise angle). Turning a spud same diameter as TS quill can show you where the TS is. Doesnt even need to be a certain diameter for either check, just helps the head.
Wana check the socket? Use a test bar.
Wana check how round the machines cutting. Turn a spud and have it checked, its probably better than you can realistically measure.
The fudgyness of the numbers depends on the wear in the surfaces and commonsense level of the guy with the indicator.

All in my humble opinion.
 
You would use a test bar to help get your lathe set up. Trying to make one to test your own accuracy wouldn't work out.

The test bar will help you see how close to dead center your head stock and tail stock are pointing at each other. Also using one in head stock, and another in tail stock, will help you see how close to true that both head stock and tail stock are to the ways. Instead of tilted up or down slightly, or side to side.

You'll also see how much wear on ways, as usually close to chuck is wore down a little more, but as saddle moves away from chuck, it will gradually rise.

Trying to use a dead center in each, may get you at center at a specific spot, but you won't know if either head stock or tail stock is tilted or true to ways. And as head stock and tail stock move away from each other the in-accuracy would grow. With test bars you indicate off the side of shafts to see how true to ways you are.

Also a test bar in spindle will let you see if you have any run out.

You don't use a test bar in a chuck, a four jaw chuck can be adjusted to get your work close to spinning without appearing out of round regardless. For a test bar, you would remove chuck, and end of spindle should be tapered. Test bar would be put into that taper. Roll spindle by hand with dial indicator mounted on saddle to indicate off test bar. Also move saddle back and forth the length of test bar.

Depending on readings, you may shim headstock, or one end of head stock. And also make adjustment to tail stock, be it add or remove shims, or shift it side to side of it's base. But the general idea would be to get everything pointed at center, as well as close to true to ways as possible. The closer everything gets to dead center and true to ways, the more accurate your work will turn out.

Not sure your spindle thread, on a 9a I believe, but buying a partially machined back plate on ebay, or such is ok. the threads are already done. You just cut it down and true face to fit whatever chuck you want, maybe cut a boss for chuck to sit on.

The test bar I was going to make is solely for aligning the tailstock at this point, and making it so I can offset the tailstock to turn a taper easier. I was going to use the 4J to hold the end of the test bar perfectly coincenric, then put in a rough center drill and follow that up with a small boring bar to remove any error from the tailstock center drill. Flip and repeat. No machining of the outer diameter since i'm looking to get drill rod or ground stock. Then I can use it to help align the tailstock between centers. I'm not currently worried about checking the alignment of the headstock and everything, that can come later. I really just needed to know what diameter to get..
 
For that application make a 2 collar spool.

Get 2 things.
Noth round stock about 3 inches long.

One maybe 3/4 ish diameter and the other 2 ish.

Face both ends of the larger and center drill each end.

Place smaller in chuck and set compound to 60 and make a point.

This will be true driving center.

Place center in TS and place larger one between centers and snug it in.

Light cuts to remove material in middle to make spool shape.

Now make light cut on both ends and measure diameters.

They will be different.

Adjust TS and repeat until both diameters exactly same.

Now make the finish cuts best you can as now you have first reference tool.

Replace cutter with DI in tool post and recheck.

Flip end to end and recheck and all should be same.

In future just make center in chuck then place spool in machine and check with DI.

Ours is 20 yeas old and use it often.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
 








 
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