Why the high prices for a Heavy 10?
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    Default Why the high prices for a Heavy 10?

    I'm watching a local auction that has three Heavy 10's in very nice condition. But 10 days out, they're up to nearly $2000; more, when you add in the taxes and buyer's premium. They have several other American lathes that are still down around a few hundred bucks. Apparently, folks really want those Heavy 10's. Is there some kind of magic to them? I'll be curious to see what they bring, but I'm not willing to go over $2K. Maybe they'll draw attention and money away from one of the other lathes, and I can get a decent deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MushCreek View Post
    I'm watching a local auction that has three Heavy 10's in very nice condition. But 10 days out, they're up to nearly $2000; more, when you add in the taxes and buyer's premium. They have several other American lathes that are still down around a few hundred bucks. Apparently, folks really want those Heavy 10's. Is there some kind of magic to them? I'll be curious to see what they bring, but I'm not willing to go over $2K. Maybe they'll draw attention and money away from one of the other lathes, and I can get a decent deal.
    Why are heavy 10s expensive? Ignorant buyers that have never run anything better, and there are lots of better lathes out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MushCreek View Post
    They have several other American lathes that are still down around a few hundred bucks.
    Pacemakers or the old clunkers ? I would not buy American or a Monarch that's older than about 1942. 50's is better.

    They are just too slow and clunky. Even 1,000 rpm and the small thru-hole of the war era machines is kind of limiting, but you can live with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MushCreek View Post
    I'm watching a local auction that has three Heavy 10's in very nice condition. But 10 days out, they're up to nearly $2000; more, when you add in the taxes and buyer's premium. They have several other American lathes that are still down around a few hundred bucks. Apparently, folks really want those Heavy 10's. Is there some kind of magic to them? I'll be curious to see what they bring, but I'm not willing to go over $2K. Maybe they'll draw attention and money away from one of the other lathes, and I can get a decent deal.
    Where's the link, so that we can watch it too?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MushCreek View Post
    I'm watching a local auction that has three Heavy 10's in very nice condition. But 10 days out, they're up to nearly $2000; more, when you add in the taxes and buyer's premium. They have several other American lathes that are still down around a few hundred bucks. Apparently, folks really want those Heavy 10's. Is there some kind of magic to them? I'll be curious to see what they bring, but I'm not willing to go over $2K. Maybe they'll draw attention and money away from one of the other lathes, and I can get a decent deal.
    You are not being realistic. Buying a decent lathe for $2,000 is not realistic in any size. This is especially true if it has chucks and tooling with it. Small machines hold their value much longer than larger machines because of hobbyist's space and power issues. The market for large size manual machine is small in industry today. Professional shops and large companies usually buy new for many reasons and usually they don't buy manual machines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    You are not being realistic. Buying a decent lathe for $2,000 is not realistic in any size. This is especially true if it has chucks and tooling with it. Small machines hold their value much longer than larger machines because of hobbyist's space and power issues. The market for large size manual machine is small in industry today. Professional shops and large companies usually buy new for many reasons and usually they don't buy manual machines.
    Totally agree, I gave $4500 for my '66 LeBlond 15c and it is in great shape. Got a ton of tooling, collet chuck with full set of C5 collets, 3 jaw, 4 jaw, Dorian tool quick change with 10 holders and a ton of carbide and I think I got a steal!!!

    The hobbyist market keep on getting stronger and stronger as the economy does (people have more throw away money). The crazy deals from the past are very few and far between and like the old saying goes you get what you pay for.

    As for my 2 on lathe purchasing, make sure to check out the lathe in great detail, if it does not have power feeds I would walk away.

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    If it's the auctioneer I am thinking I gave heard a lot of shady actions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmoore2784 View Post
    ...people have more throw away money...
    I've NEVER had any "throw away money"! Fun money, found money, yes, but NEVER throw away!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SLK001 View Post
    I've NEVER had any "throw away money"! Fun money, found money, yes, but NEVER throw away!
    Well surely you DID have. It was called "taxes".

    None of it was returned nor ever even SEEN again was it?


    OP: A "heavy" ten is premium priced because it is not.

    "Heavy".

    A medical condition is involved. Similar to lactose intolerance, peanut allergy, or vegetraryones who cannot or will not eat meat.

    "Real" lathes start at 2,000 lbs MORE IRON.

    South Bends and their owners are violently allergic to Iron, must substitute pasta. As-in Linguine-bed lathes..

    That simple.

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    I didn't know what a Heavy 10 was when Fred gave me mine (he didn't know either). He had bought it at auction from an old shop in our area for which we both had little respect. He said it was their "good machine" and we both chuckled. Neither of us would have had an old SB in our shops. Having spent some time running this machine, I have developed MUCH more respect for it. I would say it is an outstanding machine for a home shop, small enough to be practical yet big and rigid enough to do real work. Having said that, because of what is available with a geared head and precision spindle bearings, I would put the maximum price for one well tooled at $2500-3000. They seem to have acquired a reputation with the gunsmithing/hobby crowd which pushes the price up for those not well versed in what makes a good lathe.

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    The shop at the community college I went to had some heavy 10's. They're good learner machines. Don't see em too much in the real world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    You are not being realistic. Buying a decent lathe for $2,000 is not realistic in any size.

    This is especially true if it has chucks and tooling with it.

    Small machines hold their value much longer than larger machines because of hobbyist's space and power issues.

    The market for large size manual machine is small in industry today.

    Professional shops and large companies usually buy new for many reasons and usually they don't buy manual machines.

    It's the perfect storm, small enough to get into the basement.

    Large enough in bed size and spindle bore size to pass through a rifle barrel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davehud View Post
    The shop at the community college I went to had some heavy 10's. They're good learner machines. Don't see em too much in the real world.
    Fortunately... I was already being "privately mentored" on shaper, drillpress, shears, punch-press, horizontal & vertical mills, Hendey tie-bar, all-manual and auto-feed surface grinders, Iron-bearing SB nines, and E A Myers' first-ever Hardinge.. by, if not well before, the date our shop instructor tasked me with the leveling and bolting of our JR HS // HS shop's first brand-new "toolroom" ten SB and the Logan next to it I grew to prefer.

    I ended up becoming Dave's de-facto assistant more than student, as safety needed more than one pair of eyes, what with a bunch of typically rambunctious kids badly outnumbering one lone teacher.

    It was a accident of need and circumstance, multiplying HIS effectivness, and one turned into a blessing. The payback? Dave taught me how to manage a team, hold their attention, teach the techniques and the technology, motivate them to apply themselves and excel.

    Far the more universally portable skill than mangling metal with my own "single pair" of hands, and one that made military service easier and more beneficial, eventually payed way to Hell and gone better over the long years than cranking handles, "personally".

    So no. I consider SB's good more for training carelessness than respect as far as formal-training program lathes go, end of the 1950's, dawn of the 1960's.

    What SHOULD we have had, that era?

    Horizontal mill. Vertical mill. Collet-runner Hardinge. L&S pocket battleship.

    Goods the students might actually RUN, and for a crust, "out in the world". That era anyway.

    CNC today of course. make it a serious rig, and common, even so. Same reason. Reality.

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    I'll try to attach a link.

    CLT Auctions | Precision Turning & Machining Auction lots

    They are listed as 'late model', and look exceptionally clean. I see lathes around here for $2000-2500. The other lathes in this auction are (currently) much lower bids. I know they'll take off when the auction draws near, but those Heavy 10's are seeing a lot of action.

    I'm looking for a fairly small lathe to replace my Summit 11X32. The Summit would be OK for my purposes, but it's an oddball spindle thread (3X56 mm), not set-up for collets, and an oddball compound slide with the tool post mount built in to it. There's no way to mount a typical dovetail tool post on it. All that makes it frustrating for hobby use. I'm a retired pro, so I know a lot about lathes, but I've never run one of those magical Heavy 10's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Well surely you DID have. It was called "taxes".
    I classify that not as throw away money, but as stolen or "extracted" money, after they ran me down, tackled me, took out my wallet and took what they wanted from me. I really felt violated!

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    As in any machine purpose, a great deal depends upon the prospective use by the owner. The trick is to find a lathe that has not been too badly used, and tooling is a positive plus. I have both the SB and the Rockwell 11" in my shop. The Rockwell is a much better lathe, and cheaper to boot.

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    [QUOTE=thermite;3477017]
    "...Horizontal mill. Vertical mill. Collet-runner Hardinge. L&S pocket battleship...."

    Ah, a collet runner hardinge. For all of those who think the lowly 10L is overpriced, I urge
    you to inspect the HLVH and deckel FP2[1] that are for sale right now on this site. Go buy
    those two.

    Ha.

    And for the same folks (who think the 10L is an overpriced piece of junk) another suggestion:
    Don't buy one. As they say, "more for me."

    The sad fact of life is, machine prices are market driven. They cost that much, because they command that much.
    Consider: The 10Ls are among the last small machines made by SB. The 9" and 13" machines are there, but
    they are mostly clapped out. Buy one of those and it's going to be a long slog to get them in the shape to run.
    The last 10L I bought was basically unworn. Plug it in and turn it on.

    Size: home shops are limited, american pacemaker need not apply. Spindle hole: *bigger* than the hardinge
    5C collet lathe. Overall, the smallest machine that can do the biggest job. This is why they're in demand.
    But, like I said, whatever you do, DO NOT BUY ONE. That would reduce the number available for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MushCreek View Post
    I'm watching a local auction that has three Heavy 10's in very nice condition. But 10 days out, they're up to nearly $2000; more, when you add in the taxes and buyer's premium. They have several other American lathes that are still down around a few hundred bucks. Apparently, folks really want those Heavy 10's. Is there some kind of magic to them? I'll be curious to see what they bring, but I'm not willing to go over $2K. Maybe they'll draw attention and money away from one of the other lathes, and I can get a decent deal.
    Short answer is: I don't know why. There are two factors that seem to raise the price of these to the moon. 1 is location. The other is popularity.

    I bought a Sheldon EXL. Same general class of lathe, but about half the price of the SB for the same condition in this area. I have run both and believe the Sheldon has a slight edge over the SB in stiffness and general usage. SBs have a greater edge over the Sheldon on parts and overall info availability. That's just my friendly opinion. I have nothing against SB's

    Anyway I don't think those prices are out of the ballpark for Heavy 10s even up here. But I would urge you to look at a Sheldon before you buy, if price is the major concern.

    Best Regards,
    Bob

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    Looks like some good stuff at that auction and the prices for now look reasonable, I am sure the prices will be much higher at the auction.? And yes the heavy 10's are a hot Item..

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    I used the heavy 10s in my repair shop, up into the 1990s, when the Monarch 10ee lathe became available at reasonable prices. The heavy 10s filled a gap from the geared head lathes much easier making the smaller part and jobs that came along.
    I found the heavy 10 to be really easy to operate, and make a wide variety of parts quickly. This steam model, I build over 40yrs ago using a heavy 10. The import small lathes are not so easy to use, in my experience.

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