Why the high prices for a Heavy 10? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    " But I would urge you to look at a Sheldon..."

    +1.

    Also the 11 inch Logan. That can take a 5C collet right in the spindle. Don't pass
    investigating a 13 inch southbend, likewise.

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    Also, I'd beware of that HLVEM on that auction, just from looking at the few photos: shiny repaint with a few new badges, compound broken and repaired (both sides of t-slot), cross-slide and carriage knackered up, non-painted mechanical parts generally look rather "rode-hard", little tooling, machines appear moved with no power. That auction has been posted frequently on craigslist around here; interestingly, there are actually not very many items listed for a shop. In any case, I'd not fork over a lot without looking at it, seems common case of drawing moths to shiny repaints and a few new badges.

    Another consideration is that it is not wise to be a penny-pincher when an older machine is found in very good condition...go ahead and pay the extra $500-$1500 "premium" over a worn out machine; very good condition machines are rare, no repairs required, and best of all, they work and do their job as intended when plugged in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrWhoopee View Post
    Having said that, because of what is available with a geared head and precision spindle bearings
    Flat belts and plain bearings are better for precision - look at a Crystal Lake some time. They just don't transmit as much power, so the South Bend is not big on hogging. But it's nice to run, for a small lathe. They got the location of the handles and stuff pretty good.

    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Don't pass investigating a 13 inch southbend, likewise.
    Ja, that's the one I would be looking at, if I wuz looking for a South Bend. Not a bad lathe for lightweight work. Not glamorous but works well. (Had a Rockwell five feet away for a while, preferred the South Bend. The Rockwell was "nicer" but the SB more pleasant to run. Altho I usually kicked the feed gears out any time I could, what a racket !)

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    After looking at the details of those machines, they are pretty much the high end of the Heavy 10s. Metric and imperial threading (presumably transposing gears), long bed, VFD, removable top jaws on 3-jaw, Royal collet closer and D1-4 spindle. The one I looked at appeared to be very clean original paint. Could go over $3k

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrWhoopee View Post
    After looking at the details of those machines, they are pretty much the high end of the Heavy 10s. Metric and imperial threading (presumably transposing gears), long bed, VFD, removable top jaws on 3-jaw, Royal collet closer and D1-4 spindle. The one I looked at appeared to be very clean original paint. Could go over $3k
    Plus, they all have hardened and ground beds - and most look to have a SB steady rest. I would say that if you could pick one of these up for $2,500, you have committed a crime.

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    To the OP, the prices are very reasonable. The SB10L lathes are the short bed variety and have no TA, those are detractions. They all have transposing gears and those are super scarce and a big plus.

    Lot #95 is the SB Korean 1308. This is a super all around machine. I have one. It is the perfect hobby size where only one lathe is possible. It is D1-4, which offers inexpensive accessories. It has 12 spindle speeds, which is unusual for this size lathe. Normal is usually 9 speeds. It has a TA, big Plus and it is really cheap. This will fit in a basement and is not too heavy. This lathe can easily be separated from its cabinet for transport down stairs with only 4 screws. I think lot #116 steady rest goes with this 1308 lathe.

    Lot #97 is a real jewel and I think it is single phase. It has everything including a TA. This lathe is a $20,000 machine and is still well supported by the factory for both parts and accessories. It also has an L1 spindle which is also popular and well supported. It is probably too large for a basement, but easily fits in a garage. It has a large range of spindle speeds, which is a very big plus as well as the unusual 2 speed tailstock and that is very useful. I have one on my L&S.

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    I went out of my way to get a short bed 10L without a taper attachment. The TA adds considerable depth requirement for the
    machine, and is a seldom used accessory. The short bed, likewise fit in a tight spot in my shop.

    For me, a TA is a "deduct" item.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    I went out of my way to get a short bed 10L without a taper attachment. The TA adds considerable depth requirement for the
    machine, and is a seldom used accessory. The short bed, likewise fit in a tight spot in my shop.

    For me, a TA is a "deduct" item.
    Now that was just foolish. A taper attachment is one of those must have/rarely used accessories that can bring big money. It doesn't add much to the value of the lathe, but by itself it's worth quite a bit. Sell the TA and you get the lathe for half price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    To the OP, the prices are very reasonable. The SB10L lathes are the short bed variety and have no TA.
    These machines have the Long bed, 4 1/2’, the longest bed offered. And at least one of them has a taper attachment.
    The prices will go up a lot before the auction ends
    Ted

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBLatheman View Post
    The prices will go up a lot before the auction ends
    Any of youse South Bend guys want a nice Cyclone ? Probably cheaper than these "Heavy tens" and a lot more accurate. Has the taper attachment, too

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    I went out of my way to get a short bed 10L without a taper attachment. The TA adds considerable depth requirement for the
    machine, and is a seldom used accessory. The short bed, likewise fit in a tight spot in my shop.

    For me, a TA is a "deduct" item.
    For such an experienced person, I'm shocked with your TA opinion. On the additional space increase that a TA adds it just is not true. On the SB cabinet machines the added distance, 7.5",does not extend beyond the cabinet. That is true for all my 3 lathes, including my big L&S. I will not own a lathe anymore without a TA. You are correct in stating that you do not need them very often, but when you do, there is no substitute with the single exception of a tracer unit. Bed length is a personal preference thing, but I won't own a lathe if it has a bed less than 40". It is just too limiting, especially if you want to do rifle barrels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBLatheman View Post
    These machines have the Long bed, 4 1/2’, the longest bed offered. And at least one of them has a taper attachment.
    The prices will go up a lot before the auction ends
    Ted
    Ted, all these 10L have the 36" bed and no TA, lot # 75 and # 84. But I stand corrected on lot # 92. It is stated that it too has a 36" bed, but I am pretty sure it is the 42" and it does have a TA.

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    [QUOTE=steve-l;3477806]You are correct in stating that you do not need them very often, but when you do, there is no substitute with the single exception of a tracer unit.

    Turning between centers, offset tailstock. Does a fine job, for most of my tasks involving low angle tapers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    Ted, all these 10L have the 36" bed and no TA, lot # 75 and # 84. But I stand corrected on lot # 92. It is stated that it too has a 36" bed, but I am pretty sure it is the 42" and it does have a TA.
    They are ALL 4½ foot beds. The problem is the writer doesn't know how to read, particularly the name plate. They are all listed as 8187 models, but since only the one has the taper attachment, only it can be a toolroom model. To read the lengths, you have to zoom into the attached photos to REALLY get the correct info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steve-l View Post
    To the OP, the prices are very reasonable. The SB10L lathes are the short bed variety and have no TA, those are detractions. They all have transposing gears and those are super scarce and a big plus.

    Lot #95 is the SB Korean 1308. This is a super all around machine. I have one. It is the perfect hobby size where only one lathe is possible. It is D1-4, which offers inexpensive accessories. It has 12 spindle speeds, which is unusual for this size lathe. Normal is usually 9 speeds. It has a TA, big Plus and it is really cheap. This will fit in a basement and is not too heavy. This lathe can easily be separated from its cabinet for transport down stairs with only 4 screws. I think lot #116 steady rest goes with this 1308 lathe.

    Lot #97 is a real jewel and I think it is single phase. It has everything including a TA. This lathe is a $20,000 machine and is still well supported by the factory for both parts and accessories. It also has an L1 spindle which is also popular and well supported. It is probably too large for a basement, but easily fits in a garage. It has a large range of spindle speeds, which is a very big plus as well as the unusual 2 speed tailstock and that is very useful. I have one on my L&S.
    I think you mean #96. 97 is a bandsaw. I have to watch the horsepower; I'm limited to a 5 hp 3 ph. There's a smaller one of those in the auction, too. Just not sure if I want to get into a Servo shift. That SB 1308 would probably work well for my needs. My past experience with machinery auctions around here is that all of those machines will go way above my pay grade at the end. That's why I'm surprised to see such strong bids so early on the Heavy 10's. There's a guy right around the corner from me with a 15" LeBlond for $2400, but it's a little bigger than I want to go. I have a big barn, but my 'lathe spot' wouldn't accommodate a machine that size. I'm a retired tinkerer now; don't need much of a lathe.

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    1-3/8" spindle bore.
    Short headstock.

    Makes them attractive to riflesmiths.
    Looked for one for nearly a year in the Florida (or nearby) machine tool desert. Luckily, fell into an 11" Sheldon that fit the bill- but parts availability is about nil. Been looking for a steady for mine, for over 6 months since I bought it.

    As with all old USA iron, the condition of those on the market obviously gets worse and worse as time goes by.
    Finding a light use, 50 year old machine gets tougher every day so prices for those with light wear and aren't clapped out will keep increasing, to a point.

    Sheldon- but make sure it doesn't need anything you can't fabricate.

    Frankly, in that auction I'd be looking at that 1308 over the 10L's.

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    Auction ending in 11 hours. The Heavy 10's ranging $1800-$2750. The 1308 is $1150!

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    If the OP goes with the 1308, which would be my recommendation, he should be careful about the shims under the bed to cabinet bolts. Those shims control bed twist, not the cabinet feet.

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    Damn! Those Heavy 10s went ~$3600 +7% tax +16% buyer's premium!

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    Well, I didn't come close to buying anything- too rich for my blood. All of the lathes went in the $3600- $3800 range. You have to remember that with the 'juice' and sales tax, you're in the $4500 range. Granted, the lathes did appear to be in unusually good condition, although I didn't go look at them in person. I see plenty of lathes around for half that. For hobby use, I didn't need a perfect machine.


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