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    Question Wiring motor/switch help...Please

    Wiring motor/ switch help...Please

    This motor is on a Heavy 10 that I bought. The previous owner had replaced the 3-phase motor with this Dayton, wired to just run forward(220v 1-phase). I want it to also reverse, using the drum switch.
    I have wired many machines, but not with this type of motor.

    220volt single phase
    Cutler Hammer drum switch

    Thanks in advance
    Ted
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 39730646-fe86-47f2-bb10-3b518d73ac71.jpg   a74881a3-3e41-43b7-bc96-1b4354984b89.jpg   6950de83-b65f-4f06-a514-0af89d184a7c.jpg  

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    need higher resolution images.

    allan

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitno455 View Post
    need higher resolution images.

    allan
    They are pretty good pictures, but they don’t post very well
    I can email them to you.
    Ted
    [email protected]

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    drew it up for you ,sireasy-money-ted.jpg

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    Hmm, RRR's technique might work, if you have neutral in your cable, but it does not disconnect the second leg. You'd have to have another disconnect method, like a plug to be safe.

    I think we can do better, but we'll have to modify the switch certainly. Too bad it is one of those damnable terminal board motors- without a schematic of its guts, you can never be quite sure what it does. I'll try to draw something up.

    allan

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    that's how it works on a single phase motor with forward/reverse and a 3 pole double throw switch . the wire needs to be size accordingly ,disconnect and breaker /overload ,provided for in power circuit. you could just pig tail it ( install a plug for an easy disconnect means.) see NEC and follow all local codes ,safety first ,Ray

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    a single phase reversible continuous duty capacitor start with centrifugal switch is a very ,very simple motor that can be wrung out with a meter and all wiring easily identified ,might suggest some of the free publications from NEMMA for a better understanding of electric motors

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBLatheman View Post
    Wiring motor/ switch help...Please

    This motor is on a Heavy 10 that I bought. The previous owner had replaced the 3-phase motor with this Dayton, wired to just run forward(220v 1-phase). I want it to also reverse, using the drum switch.
    I have wired many machines, but not with this type of motor.

    220volt single phase
    Cutler Hammer drum switch

    Thanks in advance
    Ted
    All the Dayton single-phase motors I've had hands-on that WERE readily reversible, WW Grainger themselves published the reversing info for.... somewhere, if not also on the dataplate.

    Might be faster/less head-scratching to find that info online than it is to adapt a "generic" how-to?

    A drum switch shipped for 3-P might be short one set of contacts for the reversing swap?

    And... I trust you are already aware that "most" single-phase motors must be brought to a full stop before they will reverse.

    The obvious fix exists if you have spare RPC capacity to put it back to a 3-P motor.

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    Sorry this has taken so long, real life got in the way-

    So, if you want to switch both legs you can, but you'll have to modify the switch. The existing jumpers will need to be modified. You can continue to solder them, or just use the screw terminals. The missing screws should be the same as those found on the side of a 110v outlet or switch, so can generally be gotten from the scrap bin.

    At the motor, you will largely use the high voltage diagram, with two changes- the two 'line' inputs will come from the switch, and the black wire will not be connected to T5, it will be brought out to the switch.

    3pdt-220-dayton.gif

    Hope this helps- let me know if you have questions.

    allan

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    Oh, I should also mention that I was unable to find an internal wiring diagram for this motor, only for later Daytons. There is a possibility that the capacitor is between T4 and T5 in the motor. If so, my diagram is bypassing it. It probably makes sense to test for resistance between T4 and T5. If you find that the resistance is initially very low, and slowly rises as you leave the meter connected, you are looking at the capacitor. If that is the case, we should not bypass it. We'd have to do some surgery behind that terminal board to use this technique.

    allan

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitno455 View Post
    Sorry this has taken so long, real life got in the way-

    So, if you want to switch both legs you can, but you'll have to modify the switch. The existing jumpers will need to be modified. You can continue to solder them, or just use the screw terminals. The missing screws should be the same as those found on the side of a 110v outlet or switch, so can generally be gotten from the scrap bin.

    At the motor, you will largely use the high voltage diagram, with two changes- the two 'line' inputs will come from the switch, and the black wire will not be connected to T5, it will be brought out to the switch.

    3pdt-220-dayton.gif

    Hope this helps- let me know if you have questions.

    allan
    Thank you, Allan. That is a very elegant solution...if it works
    I will test the capacitor like you suggested first and let you know how it worked out.
    Regards,
    Ted

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    a few motor schematic's that may be of use , the three original posted pic.s by the OP are a blur,( unable to read terminal designations and motor leads ) good lucksingle-phase-reversible-dual-voltage-motor.jpgmotor-termianl-color-code-.jpg5-lead-single-phase-motor.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitno455 View Post
    Sorry this has taken so long, real life got in the way-

    So, if you want to switch both legs you can, but you'll have to modify the switch. The existing jumpers will need to be modified. You can continue to solder them, or just use the screw terminals. The missing screws should be the same as those found on the side of a 110v outlet or switch, so can generally be gotten from the scrap bin.

    At the motor, you will largely use the high voltage diagram, with two changes- the two 'line' inputs will come from the switch, and the black wire will not be connected to T5, it will be brought out to the switch.

    3pdt-220-dayton.gif

    Hope this helps- let me know if you have questions.

    allan
    I had time this morning to wire it up.(on the bench)
    Flipped the switch on direction and the motor started right up, a little rough running. Shut it off and flipped it the other direction. It started right up, still a little rough. I shut it off to make sure it changed direction (it did). I then started it up to let it run for a while. After about 30 seconds, smoke started coming out of it and I shut it off.
    Could this be the centrifugal switch not releasing?
    Thanks for your help
    Ted

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    Yes- It is certainly possible that you've bypassed the centrifugal switch. We'd have to trace out the connections behind the terminal board to be sure.

    allan

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitno455 View Post
    Yes- It is certainly possible that you've bypassed the centrifugal switch. We'd have to trace out the connections behind the terminal board to be sure.

    allan
    Started right up BUT running rough, then overheats?

    Shouts-out that it is hard-wired in "start" mode, unable to "upshift" to "run" mode, yes.

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    found this how to trouble shoot a motor with start cap and centrifugal switch that may be of help for you ? YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by kitno455 View Post
    Yes- It is certainly possible that you've bypassed the centrifugal switch. We'd have to trace out the connections behind the terminal board to be sure.

    allan
    More info:
    The brown goes to the centrifugal switch
    The black wire goes to the capacitor
    Red goes into the windings, and so do the yellow ones.

    Thanks for everybody’s help
    Ted
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails a436995c-d069-4e37-b974-e43176fb73e9.jpg  

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    The brown wire goes to the thermal limiter, and I'd guess that terminal 5 is an integral part of the cent switch. I'll go back to the drawing board

    allan

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    An unfortunate design, that integrates the cent switch with one of the line-in terminals. We'd have to completely rewire the terminal board to make T4 the star point and T3 the line-in. If it were mine, I'd do it, but I hesitate to walk someone else through it over the internet

    allan

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    Ok, Ted said he was game to try, so here goes- All we really are doing is switching everything on both sides of the terminal board between terminals 3 and 4, so the cent switch is at the star point.

    1. on the back of the board, switch the locations of the yellow and orange wires.
    2. on the front of the board, move the white wire with the ring terminal to T4.
    3. on the front of the board, move the red wire to T5.
    4. on the front of the board, ensure the line-in wires from the switch are on T1 and T3.

    Everything else should be as my earlier drawing.

    Oh, and i'd put a couple big permanent marker 'X' marks over the motor wiring diagrams

    allan

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