WTB wanted D1-4 5c Sorjensen Chuck or other quality brand

Andy St · Feb 10, 2018

Hi Missed out on 2 of these this week on PM. First one was $250 second $150. Have lots of things to trade or just buy it outright.
Sorry about the spelling should have been Sjogren

Thanks
Andy

Monarchist · Feb 10, 2018

Andy St said:
Hi Missed out on 2 of these this week on PM. First one was $250 second $150. Have lots of things to trade or just buy it outright.
Sorry about the spelling should have been Sjogren

Thanks
Andy

Actually "Hardinge-Sjogren" if you want to add to search terms as may help find one.

You may also find 2J more easily. That can be a good thing, even though the collets are double and more the price of 5C. Commonly 4-way split rather than 3, grip better and last longer, even down into the same sizes as 5C.

I have both. Of course.

5C is simply unbeatable for "cheap", especially as to hex, square, step chucks, ID expanders, mini-chucks...etc.

Otherwise, I am not overly fond of 5C. OTOH, there ain't much "otherwise" left, is there?

Brodytonelotti · Feb 10, 2018

Add me to the dang list of next in line for a hardinge sjogren 5c collet chuck once you get yours. I don’t care what back is on it but 1 1/2”x ? is preferable so I can bore it out and thread it to 1 5/8”x 8 so it will fit my spindle.

Monarchist · Feb 10, 2018

Brodytonelotti said:
Add me to the dang list of next in line for a hardinge sjogren 5c collet chuck once you get yours. I don’t care what back is on it but 1 1/2”x ? is preferable so I can bore it out and thread it to 1 5/8”x 8 so it will fit my spindle.

10EE's - and other Monarch's - are notorious for tight spindle bores, so I'm not the first one to cast rocks.

Even so.. if all I had on the spindle OD was 1 5/8"? I'd FIRST change the lathe. THEN look for a Sjogren.

5C on that spindle might be better served with a key-cranker.

The "speed" in "Sjogren Speed Chuck" is commercial puffery, AKA "a damned lie", anyway, and the OD is waaay larger than a sub $200 brand-new 5C key-cranker..

L Vanice · Feb 10, 2018

Brodytonelotti said:
Add me to the dang list of next in line for a hardinge sjogren 5c collet chuck once you get yours. I don’t care what back is on it but 1 1/2”x ? is preferable so I can bore it out and thread it to 1 5/8”x 8 so it will fit my spindle.

The back is important. The camlock and American Standard Sjogren chucks do not have separate back plates and the back of the chuck is, of course, hard. You want the flat back, threaded or long taper back, which do have separate back plates.

http://www.hardinge.com/usr/pdf/collet/B123_Sjogren.pdf

The 5C chucks came in three different front ends: plain nose, threaded nose or taper nose. The threaded and taper versions can use Hardinge step chuck closers and other attachments that fit the Hardinge 5C lathe spindles.

In my experience, the 5C chucks are much more scarce than the 2J chucks. The 1J collets are rare and the 3J collets are kind of rare. There are lots of 2J collets around, but they are not cheap.

Larry

Monarchist · Feb 10, 2018

What Larry said.

And there also exist "false nose" adapters, Hardinge taper to Hardinge threaded that - among other things - can be utilized to enable use of the Hardinge 5C step-collet / "pot" chucks up to 7" ID on any lathe. I have such, but don't want to stress it over 5", even on a D1-3 back for the 10EE's.

And there's the point as to giving thought to upgrading the lathe itself before investing in tooling that can exceed its own value - if it has not already done so.

A mere 1 5/8" spindle needs a bit of respect for the fact that it is not even a 2"-plus.

If/as/when one is to start hanging nose-art onto it that has significant mass and/or hang-out? Workholding of any kind that can grip even longer and heavier stock?

Turning may still proceed OK.

Chucks? Serve notice you need to take care, right up front and obvious-like.

Collet systems? Sneakier, they can be. Can easily lull one into an undeserved complacency.

A crash, then, has now been handed a great deal more leverage with which to wreak havoc of a nature "fatal" to the lathe, (though hopefully NOT the operator, of course!).

2CW

Brodytonelotti · Feb 10, 2018

Monarchist said:
What Larry said.

And there also exist "false nose" adapters, Hardinge taper to Hardinge threaded that - among other things - can be utilized to enable use of the Hardinge 5C step-collet / "pot" chucks up to 7" ID on any lathe. I have such, but don't want to stress it over 5", even on a D1-3 back for the 10EE's.

And there's the point as to giving thought to upgrading the lathe itself before investing in tooling that can exceed its own value - if it has not already done so.

A mere 1 5/8" spindle needs a bit of respect for the fact that it is not even a 2"-plus.

If/as/when one is to start hanging nose-art onto it that has significant mass and/or hang-out? Workholding of any kind that can grip even longer and heavier stock?

Turning may still proceed OK.

Chucks? Serve notice you need to take care, right up front and obvious-like.

Collet systems? Sneakier, they can be. Can easily lull one into an undeserved complacency.

A crash, then, has now been handed a great deal more leverage with which to wreak havoc of a nature "fatal" to the lathe, (though hopefully NOT the operator, of course!).

2CW

Don’t get to caught up on the lathe it is going on... an upgrade and a large one is in the near future. However when I get rid of this lathe I will be keeping most of the tooling I have acquired, and definitely the collet chuck. This lathe may be smaller but is definitely capable... it has handled everything I have thrown at it very well and produced nice finishes. Some of it would have been easier on a 16-18” lathe though.

Monarchist · Feb 10, 2018

Brodytonelotti said:
an upgrade and a large one is in the near future. However when I get rid of this lathe I will be keeping most of the tooling I have acquired, and definitely the collet chuck.

Prezactly why you'd be better-served swapping the priorities and upgrading the lathe before expanding tooling - at least in the Sjogren direction.

Not yet knowing what nose will be on the replacement, among the things "what Larry said", was:

The back is important. The camlock and American Standard Sjogren chucks do not have separate back plates and the back of the chuck is, of course, hard. You want the flat back, threaded or long taper back, which do have separate back plates.

Just guess which Sjogrens have been snatched-up, long since, and are hardest to find? Now guess which spindle nose is EASIER to find, newer/larger/both lathes. Both answers oppose ease of migration from what you have now.

By contrast, a CDCO (passable, just) or H&H Industrial (nicer than expected, and waay less costly than Bison!) 5C key-cranker is inherently flat-back, hence known to be amenable to migration, regardless.

Am I anti-Sjogren? Nope. Own two of them.

Also two Rubberflex 9XX, two of those 5C key-crankers, one Burnerd Multi-size, and two sizes of ER.

Brodytonelotti · Feb 10, 2018

Monarchist said:
Prezactly why you'd be better-served swapping the priorities and upgrading the lathe before expanding tooling - at least in the Sjogren direction.

Not yet knowing what nose will be on the replacement, among the things "what Larry said", was:

Just guess which Sjogrens have been snatched-up, long since, and are hardest to find? Now guess which spindle nose is EASIER to find, newer/larger/both lathes. Both answers oppose ease of migration from what you have now.

By contrast, a CDCO (passable, just) or H&H Industrial (nicer than expected, and waay less costly than Bison!) 5C key-cranker is inherently flat-back, hence known to be amenable to migration, regardless.

Am I anti-Sjogren? Nope. Own two of them.

Also two Rubberflex 9XX, two of those 5C key-crankers, one Burnerd Multi-size, and two sizes of ER.

Ok, I’ll explain further and then I think you’ll understand my reasoning. Before I can get the lathe I want I need to build at least a 36x60 building with a 14’ ceiling. That should happen fairly soon. Sooo until I build my building I still have room to acquire more tooling when I find a good deal. If I have expensive tooling like the collet chuck that I can’t make work with the new lathe I will just sell it probably separate from the lathe. I’ll keep all of the smaller tooling though. That’s why I want 5C... not 1J or 2J. I’ll have more collet options and I’ll just keep the collets if I have to sell the chuck.
P.S. I’m kind of bull headed and if you lead me to water it’s hard to make me drink

Machinery_E · Feb 10, 2018

Larry is right, its much harder to find the 5C Sjogren chucks. For the 2J chucks, you can buy a 2J to 5C collet adapter. I did some research on the adapters, and for what I found at the time (may have changed) they were made out of 1144. With the previous experience with "soft" collets and taper noses, I didn't want to go that route. So I machined a stock 15/16" Hardinge collet into an adapter collet. Works fantastic, and not only do you have the large capacity of the 2J collets, you can quickly switch to 5C for odd stuff like metric sizes without the hassle of changing chucks.

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