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FS: Monarch 10EE Powertrain, collet closer, and cross slide

jim314159

Aluminum
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Location
Atlanta, GA, USA
Hi Folks,

I am just wrapping up a 10EE (1957 square dial WIAD) restoration and it's time to clear out some odds and ends. I have available:
  • The rear half of a collet closer assembly. What's in the photos is what's included. It appears to function, but is grimy. Make me an offer.
  • The base casting of a cross slide. Scraping is still in evidence on some surfaces, not so on others. The visible surfaces are in what I'd call very good cosmetic condition. I have an old, damaged gib I can include with it at no charge if you'd like it. Asking $150.
  • The entire original powertrain of the lathe. Soup to nuts from the Cutler Hammer contactor, transformer, relays, entire WiaD setup (including drawer, C16J tubes, etc)., the relay box, the Reliance 3 HP DC motor, and final drive gearbox. I lack the skills and electricity to test its functionality but I was told it was working by the dealer who sold it to me. I know the motor needs new brushes (one is missing) and the dog clutch in the final drive is a little beat up, but they all are, aren't they? I have no idea on how to price this thing, but I hate to split it up and just sell the tubes or whatever and scrap the rest.

I'm a reasonable person who tries to be honest in all his dealings. I'd rather sell this stuff to the enthusiasts here than random eBay people.

Cheers,
jim

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If that's the "small frame" 3 HP Reliance motor, it had a splined shaft into the gearbox. You might be ahead to take BOTH?

Thermite, aside from the splined/non-splined are the gearboxes the same for a 3hp or 5hp machine? My 10ee is a 5hp, although I do not plan on mating this gearbox to my 5hp, as I plan on using it to design the motor mount for my 3-phase conversion. I'd like them to have the same form factor (shift linkage, etc).
 
Thermite, aside from the splined/non-splined are the gearboxes the same for a 3hp or 5hp machine? My 10ee is a 5hp, although I do not plan on mating this gearbox to my 5hp, as I plan on using it to design the motor mount for my 3-phase conversion. I'd like them to have the same form factor (shift linkage, etc).

AFAIK. .and I am not the expert as all four of my gearboxes are keyed shaft MG-era, there are three gearboxes, but.. the two newer ones differ mainly in case-casting shape, oil drain, fill, and sight-glass and in having mounting "feet" or not.

The earliest change - move from keyed shaft and shared bearing with the motor to splined shaft and their OWN input bearing.

Some other PM'er with BETTER info as to gearbox evolution should be along soon to correct that if I have it wrong. As I may have.

Otherwise, again "AFAIK", the gearsets did not need upgrading.

That was because the 5 HP motor's "HP" rating is nameplate/snapshat at around double the RPM of the original 3 HP @ 670 "base" RPM large-frame Reliance motor.

IOW the peak TORQUE didn't actually change much, given the relationship is mathematically fixed as:

Quoting "Car & Driver" here, but it's well-known:

"Mathematically, horsepower equals torque multiplied by rpm. H = T x rpm/5252, where H is horsepower, T is pound-feet, rpm is how fast the engine is spinning, and 5252 is a constant that makes the units jibe."

Do the math on a(ny) dataplate, HP @ <base RPM>, solve for Torque, which is ony rarely ON a dataplate, (gearmoters usually have it, but for the net figure WITH the gearing) easy as it would be to have published it.

The 3 HP 670 RPM large-frame, Type T, "straight" shunt, and the 5 HP "Special Machine tool duty" GE & Louis-Allis (mostly) wound as compound or compensated shunt are very similar as to peak torque, different "HP" figure or not.

The interim 3 HP SMALL frame had less torque than either.

A 3-Phase + VFD downgrade might or might not add a bearing in the adaptor plate, could otherwise be easier with an MG-era gearbox because of the simpler ordinary keywayed input shaft and no splines to match.

You'll want "at least" 7.5 HP in AC to match the 3 HP Reliance or the 5 HP because the "3" HP was actually powered to a peak of around 4.3 to 4.6 HP and has a much higher torque multiple at/near locked rotor than AC can deliver. The 5 HP had also been over-Volted vs nameplate nominal.

DC in this class has gobs more "reserve Torque" than first appears. That was not and is not just usefull at uber-low-RPM. The main benefit was/is better regulation in the more crucial Field-Weakened HIGH RPM range, where DC is at a disadvantage vs AC.

ISTR that when he Re-DID his servo motor conversion, Jerry (macona) upgraded to a TEN HP servo motor and control amplifier?

NB: Jerry was not your "average newbie experimenter". He was "in the business" of more modern servo-driven CNC goods, so already had access to the "right stuff", and knew how to apply it well.

As to real-world longevity of either choice?

DC motor brushes last a looong time when no longer in 3-shift, 6-day a week wartime emergency service. 2,000 or so "power ON" hours can translate to ten or twenty years in "smallholder" service where a 10EE isn't used every hour or even every WEEK. A VFD will be "aging-out" chemically, even if not even powered at all.

Capacitors in a VFD are typically listed at 7, 9, 12 year replacement, Phase-Perfect only THREE years. Either VFD or P-P caps can "usually" go twice or more the maker's conservative replacement number ... IF fed true 3-Phase. Single-phase input for conversion as well as variable parameters is more stressful. New caps that FIT any given VFD cost so much it is usually cheaper to just swap-in a whole new VFD rather than put new caps into an old one.

Thyristor-class (SCR) solid-state DC Drives OTOH, have no significant caps, and few wear or age related components of any kind on the life expectancy curve of a machine tool. Some of the DoD/Contractor DC Drive alternatives to MG or Thermionic valves are out there still functional after 40-odd years in service and more.

Ultimately, all MY VFD's went out the door as not worth the nuisance.

I kept DC where variable MOTOR speed was wanted, use RPC and Phase Perfect where it wasn't needed. As-in several Reeves drives or similar vari-belts, plus a PIV-Werner-Reimers metallic variable ratio drive.

"RTFM" and do some costing for your own wisest choice, going forward.
 
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