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Motor HP for 3" HBM

M

marka12161

Stainless
Joined
Dec 23, 2016
Location
Oswego, NY USA
1929 Universal Boring Mill w/3" quill. Came with a 5 HP motor, clearly not original. Sounds like it needs bearings and the adapter plate made to mount it was a bit wonky. In other words, there's some work here beyond just the usual cleaning.

From what i gather by reading, this class machine usually came with between a 7.5 and 10 HP motor. Does anyone have any experience running something similar with a 5 HP motor? Should i look for a 7.5 HP motor or will the current motor be sufficient for my mostly hobby, occasionally paying work?

If i need to make a change, it makes sense to do so before i put a bunch of time into the current set up.

Thanks
Mark
 
marka12161 said:
1929 Universal Boring Mill w/3" quill. Came with a 5 HP motor, clearly not original. Sounds like it needs bearings and the adapter plate made to mount it was a bit wonky. In other words, there's some work here beyond just the usual cleaning.

From what i gather by reading, this class machine usually came with between a 7.5 and 10 HP motor. Does anyone have any experience running something similar with a 5 HP motor? Should i look for a 7.5 HP motor or will the current motor be sufficient for my mostly hobby, occasionally paying work?

If i need to make a change, it makes sense to do so before i put a bunch of time into the current set up.

Thanks
Mark
Click to expand...

Lots more to it than "just" the HP.

- Open, drip proof are cheap, lean, and low weight but can get conductive metal fines into themselves,

- TENV are heavy, bulky, but impervious

- TEFC / TEFO (totally enclosed, fan cooled, fan OVER ....the outside fins) are noisier, fairly heavy and bulky, but what I use the most of.

Two of those, 7.5 HP Reliance "Duty Master" are neither small nor light, nor was their freight cost! But ...NRI and not-only have then around as NOS, new sort of scratch & dent (fan housings, easily repaired) at good enough prices I saw no gain to buying used goods.

A NEW Brazilian-made Weg 10 HP here is a nicer motor than Chinese.. or even Mexican-made, US named.

Hobby or not, why cripple yerself? Larger motor, loafing is nicer to run for being more stable in the cut than smaller motor running with its proverbial tongue hanging-out.

7.5 HP might indeed be your "sweet spot?"
 
John, Bill, Thank you both. I actually intended to post this in the Antique forum but was clearly lost when i generated the questions. From John's reply it looks like the current 5 HP motor may be sufficient but if it needs work, then as Bill pointed out i may want to put the time/$ into something a bit bit bigger. I know Scott in Colorado (svs) has a 1940s version of one of these machines, i'll ask him to check his machine as well.

Thanks for the help.
M
 
marka12161 said:
John, Bill, Thank you both. I actually intended to post this in the Antique forum but was clearly lost when i generated the questions. From John's reply it looks like the current 5 HP motor may be sufficient but if it needs work, then as Bill pointed out i may want to put the time/$ into something a bit bit bigger. I know Scott in Colorado (svs) has a 1940s version of one of these machines, i'll ask him to check his machine as well.

Thanks for the help.
M
Click to expand...

It will only draw what the cut + drivetrain actually need, so a bit more heft is just more stable at lighter loading. You also need to make sure it FITS, of course.

That said, machine tools of that era often DID have then still newish "cutting edge" TENV motors, OEM. Because crap had been far too often getting into open ones - the older style not EVEN being "drip proof", but open all around.

As the TENV are rather FAT for any given HP, the space for a TEFC may be no barrier.
 
thermite said:
It will only draw what the cut + drivetrain actually need, so a bit more heft is just more stable at lighter loading. You also need to make sure it FITS, of course.

That said, machine tools of that era often DID have then still newish "cutting edge" TENV motors, OEM. Because crap had been far too often getting into open ones - the older style not EVEN being "drip proof", but open all around.

As the TENV are rather FAT for any given HP, the space for a TEFC may be no barrier.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bill. Fortunately the mounting location leaves quite a bit of flexibility. The current motor "clicks" when rotating so is suspect it needs bearings. I'll have to ponder the motor replacement a bit. I've got a deep backlog of projects so i'm probably going to defer this work for a while. My motivation for removing the motor was really to clean all the chips away so i could open the top of the gearbox to peek inside (so far so good). This thing had rapid traverse which doesn't work. I'm curious as to why but probably not willing to invest too much time investigating & fixing.
 
marka12161 said:
Thanks Bill. Fortunately the mounting location leaves quite a bit of flexibility. The current motor "clicks" when rotating so is suspect it needs bearings. I'll have to ponder the motor replacement a bit.
Click to expand...

Side note on motor swaps. Shaft & pulleys, actually.

There are about half a dozen taper style mounts. The big two being Browning "QD"

Browning Q-D Bushings

...and (Morse originally?) Taperlock, which is the more compact of the two.

1210 Taper Lock Bushings | Rainbow Precision Products

I LOVE the "QD"! Several reasons.

Among them how very well they affix a pulley to the shaft, OR remove it, how it starts true-running and STAYS true, the ease of selecting the QD to match same large-bore pulley to any of several shaft sizes, and that whilst they have provision for a key, the grip is so good one can omit it to not need a step-key for a mis-match, or to not have to deal with a damaged keyway.

So when I found them going cheap NOS, NNB on ebay vs new prices many years ago, I started scarfing them up and keeping a stash.

Check 'em out. MMC has a page or so on them, inch & metric as well.
 
I run my 4 inch with a 20hp 480 motor being feed with 240 volt ( should be a little better than a 5 hp)Has done every large job that I have had...Phil
 
Mystery of no-rapids is solved

Gear boxes work better when there are gears in them. The large thing i'm pointing to with the stick should be a gear. I suspect at some point in the last 91 years someone crashed the machine when rapid traversing and ruined the gear. So, rather than suffering the pain of sourcing or fabricating a new gear, some inventive soul made a massive blank to dampen vibration. I also found some other worn gears in there. The worst of which looks to be made of brass or bronze. Another project for the ever-expanding list.
 

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marka12161 said:
Gear boxes work better when there are gears in them. The large thing i'm pointing to with the stick should be a gear. I suspect at some point in the last 91 years someone crashed the machine when rapid traversing and ruined the gear. So, rather than suffering the pain of sourcing or fabricating a new gear, some inventive soul made a massive blank to dampen vibration. I also found some other worn gears in there. The worst of which looks to be made of brass or bronze. Another project for the ever-expanding list.
Click to expand...

Well.. yazz, but.. 91 years ago, they did not live in a world chock full of cheaply surplused motors, servos, drives for them, controls, Gilmer belts, PolyVee and MicroVee belts, surplused mechanical, electric, air, and hydraulic clutches, either.

Sayin' you don't need to overall "CNC" the old warhorse - nor even close - to implement a selectable "rapids" function some less costly way than by having a dozen gears re-made, Bronze ones included ("Brass" they were never..)?

2CW
 
Thanks Bill. I'm going to clean it up, put it back together and run it. At some point when i've retired, i may cut new gears to replace the worn ones but that's a ways off. I'm glad i opened up the gear box as it revealed to need to resolve some lubrication issues.
 
marka12161 said:
Thanks Bill. I'm going to clean it up, put it back together and run it. At some point when i've retired, i may cut new gears to replace the worn ones but that's a ways off. I'm glad i opened up the gear box as it revealed to need to resolve some lubrication issues.
Click to expand...

Hopefully it also let you understand what combinations are not presently safe to utilize and have been "locked out" or NEED to be disabled from selection so broken teeth do not get called into use and do more harm than aleady as well?

No idea, from my swivel chair how many if ANY of the gears might cross-ref to Boston Gear or similar stock items, but as it isn't exactly "fun" making gears- too tedious by half - I'm sure you'll check when the time comes!

:)
 
thermite said:
Hopefully it also let you understand what combinations are not presently safe to utilize and have been "locked out" or NEED to be disabled from selection so broken teeth do not get called into use and do more harm than aleady as well?

No idea, from my swivel chair how many if ANY of the gears might cross-ref to Boston Gear or similar stock items, but as it isn't exactly "fun" making gears- too tedious by half - I'm sure you'll check when the time comes!

:)
Click to expand...

Looks like the rapids work exactly the same as the feeds but with a different gear ratio. Actually i may leave them as they are. They are not much use to me, i don't own any other machines with rapid traverse so why break the string? I hate time pressure, "slow down to hurry up" is my guiding principle. I'm mostly concerned with the worn yellow metal gears and at least one steel one. The beauty of these old machines is their simplicity. I'm a novice machinist and i feel like i can make any part that i need to.
 
marka12161 said:
Looks like the rapids work exactly the same as the feeds but with a different gear ratio. Actually i may leave them as they are. They are not much use to me, i don't own any other machines with rapid traverse so why break the string? I hate time pressure, "slow down to hurry up" is my guiding principle. I'm mostly concerned with the worn yellow metal gears and at least one steel one. The beauty of these old machines is their simplicity. I'm a novice machinist and i feel like i can make any part that i need to.
Click to expand...

Machine-tools that left the factory with "rapids" started no later than War One.

Powered return to commence the next cutting pass was essential. It took two hands and serious muscle to manually traverse LARGE lathes and mills. There was a reason many of the old Niles dinosaurians had FAT rims on their handwheels.

That wasn't just about the time it took. It was also about operator fatigue and muscle cramps.

The sooner one gets tireder, the harder it becomes to stay sharp and alert, avoid accidents, screw-ups, and be able to turn out on-spec parts.
 
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