WANTED - Repulsion/Induction Elect Motor Parts

Doppelganger703 · May 8, 2020

Hi, I am looking for parts to my electric motor. Mainly, the 'Short Circuit Necklace', I'm unsure the exact name. I'd like to see about other parts, depending on cost.

I'm guessing this is about 90-100 year old motor. I say that as it runs my Little Giant power hammer, built 1920.

Wagner 2hp, single phase, repulsion/induction motor. Model: J896M 276.

I have pictures of the motor, parts, etc. Please if anyone can point me in a direction to find parts.

Doppelganger703 · May 8, 2020

Doppelganger703 said:
Hi, I am looking for parts to my electric motor. Mainly, the 'Short Circuit Necklace', I'm unsure the exact name. I'd like to see about other parts, depending on cost.

I'm guessing this is about 90-100 year old motor. I say that as it runs my Little Giant power hammer, built 1920.

Wagner 2hp, single phase, repulsion/induction motor. Model: J896M 276.

I have pictures of the motor, parts, etc. Please if anyone can point me in a direction to find parts.

Here are a few pictures. I'd like to keep this piece of history running.

Any help at all is welcome!

SIP6A · May 8, 2020

Your going to have better luck finding another motor than you will parts.

Go to the nearest big city and find the oldest motor shop (hint they won’t be on the internet)
That’s going to be about your only chance to find one.

I want to congratulate you on wanting to keep the original motor. Most guys would just scab on some sort of motor mount and put a Dayton motor on.

something else you could look into is finding a motor with a 224 frame. That would bolt right up.

That motor doesn’t look like it was made in 1920. 1920’s motors would be more open and have oil cups and cast feet. This motor looks more like a 1940’s motor.

Doppelganger703 · May 9, 2020

SIP6A said:
Your going to have better luck finding another motor than you will parts.

Go to the nearest big city and find the oldest motor shop (hint they won’t be on the internet)
That’s going to be about your only chance to find one.

I want to congratulate you on wanting to keep the original motor. Most guys would just scab on some sort of motor mount and put a Dayton motor on.

something else you could look into is finding a motor with a 224 frame. That would bolt right up.

That motor doesn’t look like it was made in 1920. 1920’s motors would be more open and have oil cups and cast feet. This motor looks more like a 1940’s motor.

I really appreciate all the advice. The good and bad news is that I'm in North Dallas, Texas. I wish I was more North, prob better at finding what I need.

Thanks for the 1940s idea... While I'm only guessing as to the age. I was told the motor did do with the hammer... Though who knows when they paired up.

I enjoy working on this motor and hammer. I'm a fighter jet mech (35ys)... Electrical is my weak area, but this motor makes sense.

DDoug · May 9, 2020

Doppelganger703 said:
but this motor makes sense.

Why would you say that ?

what makes sense is a fully enclosed motor so the sparks and abrasive scale don't do what they did to that motor.

TEFC is the term.

Doppelganger703 · May 15, 2020

digger doug said:
Why would you say that ?

what makes sense is a fully enclosed motor so the sparks and abrasive scale don't do what they did to that motor.

TEFC is the term.

Hey,

I'm unsure if you're wanting to help, complain, or are just being judgemental (snarky).

To help - I'm open to any repair advice. Any repair manual... What lube is used for the Shorting Circuit Necklace? I've cleaned up what I've got. I have rethreaded the keys onto a wire. I'd like to lightly lube the copper keys. I don't know what to use.

Some of us don't have the money to buy another motor. In addition, I like the history and idea of keeping the motor - not putting it into the trash.

Using your advice, I should get rid of my Little Giant hammer too... There are several better running, more updated, and easier to use/maintain power hammers. BAH - I'll keep my 100 year beauty. Scar rocks my world.

Alternatively, using your advice, no more restoring classic cars, houses etc... BAH...

Thanks...

Rob F. · May 15, 2020

Doppelganger703 said:
What lube is used for the Shorting Circuit Necklace? I've cleaned up what I've got. I have rethreaded the keys onto a wire. I'd like to lightly lube the copper keys. I don't know what to use.

Dielectric grease might work good here, it lubes and does not conduct electricity.

Newman109 · May 15, 2020

I agree that you will be better off looking for a replacement reverse-induction motor.

My only experience with R-E motors came about in 1971 when my Dad and I bought a vintage Parks 4 X 12" Wood Planer from the Oliver Machine Co. when they were in Los Angeles. The machine was rusty and needed work, but to sweeten the deal it came with a NOS 2 hp Emerson R-E motor. The motor is the size of a small watermelon, LOL.

I guessed that it had brushes in it so I asked the dealer if he had spares. He sold me some along with the other parts I needed for the restoration of the Planer, but he told me that I'd never need them. That was, he said, because the brushes lift instantly at startup.

He was correct. some 50 years later, that new set of brushes is sitting in a drawer in my shop. The Planer is still in use with that motor, too

Good luck in your search.

DDoug · May 15, 2020

Motor - tools - by owner - sale

Doppelganger703 · May 15, 2020

digger doug said:
Motor - tools - by owner - sale

Thanks for the ad... I'm in N. Texas not near PA. I've looked around my area for used listings with very little luck. Also, my power hammer has specific requirements... Rpm, hp, etc.

lou · May 16, 2020

Digger, from what little research that I did and if my understanding is right the "fingers" are used as a centrifugal switch. When the motor comes up to the proper speed the fingers swing out and make contact with the communtator segments shorting them out. I can see that the parts appear to have been subject to high heat, but can it be rebuilt with the parts you have and some TLC??

johansen · May 16, 2020

If you have lost some of the keys, space them out with copper or brass washers. Clean them up get rid of the burrs.

They make contact with the commutator (once centrifugal force kickes in which has 2 sets of shorted brushes for starting torque, which is why there is like 2to 3 times as many keys as there are bars.

What you might be missing is a spring wrapped around the bars. A womans elastic hair tie (1/8" diameter, 1.5 or 2inch diameter) might be a good starting guess. Or rubber bands.

Does this fit inside the commtator with the brushes on the outside?

johansen · May 17, 2020

sorry for the double post but i wanted to get your attention.

it looks to me like the steel spring broke a long time ago and the arcing and pitting of those keys is because they are prematurely making contact as soon as the motor starts up.

becksmachine · May 22, 2020

Hi Doppelganger, I may have parts or complete operable motor(s).

You can contact me at [email protected].

David Beck

Doppelganger703 · May 22, 2020

johansen said:
sorry for the double post but i wanted to get your attention.

it looks to me like the steel spring broke a long time ago and the arcing and pitting of those keys is because they are prematurely making contact as soon as the motor starts up.

Man you've given me great advice. The problem is that I can 'close' the loop with the keys.

I've tried soldering, but it just won't hold. Also, the keys won't pass freely through that connection.

I'm going to move to a single strand gage wire.

What spring do you mean? I think I've got all of the keys. In fact they all don't really fit.

Mr_CNC_guy · May 22, 2020

I am trying to get my head around the "keys". What do they do?
How do they operate. Why does a Repulsion/Induction Elect Motor
need such a thing?

Thanks,
Pete.

jim rozen · May 22, 2020

Darn I forgot to mention this: if you want to remove all the oxide from those parts, you can immerse them
in liquid blue soldering flux. It works even cold - we use it frequently at work to clean up copper parts. Best
if you have an ultrasonic cleaner, parts go in a beaker, flux goes in the beaker, beaker suspended in the
water bath of the U/S cleaner.

Doppelganger703 · May 22, 2020

Mr_CNC_guy said:
I am trying to get my head around the "keys". What do they do?
How do they operate. Why does a Repulsion/Induction Elect Motor
need such a thing?

Thanks,
Pete.

The repulsion-induction motor

Mr_CNC_guy · May 22, 2020

Thanks for that. I read it and some of the others.
But what is the function of the keys? How do they work?
I just can't visualize the construction.

Thanks,
Pete.

johansen · May 22, 2020

You probably need to pull the end plate off (its staked in 3 places) to braze the ring together.

The keys have a spring wrapped around them and once some rpm is reached they fly outward and touch the commutator bars shorting them all out. Where is the commutator and brush assembly?

WANTED - Repulsion/Induction Elect Motor Parts

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