12 lead dual voltage Y(wye/Star) 460 or 230 Delta wiring (9kw/12hp) Cazeneuve HB500
Close
Login to Your Account
Results 1 to 5 of 5
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    HSV
    Posts
    22
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    6

    Default HOw to wire 12 lead Y(wye/Star) 460 or 230 Delta wiring (9kw/12hp) Cazeneuve HB500

    This machine was wired 440 V.
    I will be using 220.
    My thinking to testing and initial starting the lathe was the following:
    1.change the two transformers from 460 V to 230V at the Primary terminals. Looks like Trans1 steps down to 110v or 220v but is wired 110 out for Sec. and Transformer 2 is control stepped down to "0" & "24V".
    2. change jumpers on the main lathe motor as depicted on the motor placard from 460 Y to 230 Delta.

    So here is where I lost confidence and my question.
    The motor placard is stamped Voltage : WYE for 460/ Delta for 230 see attached PDF/jpg for terminal IDs, Internal 12 wire ,6 wires coming from electrical box terminals.

    The confusing thing is terminal block on the motor is labeled differently than the ele. schematic given? Or that is my take. See diagram in pic.
    Also they are using U1V1W1, X1Y1Z1 and U2 V2 W2 and X2 Y2 Z2 nomenclature on the motor terminal block so that is equally confusing.
    There are 6 leads coming into the motor out of the enclosure . I am used to feeding 3 leads L1, L2 And L3 into all my other machines at the motor terminal block?
    So why feed 6 leads into the motor terminal block? Again see attached for how it is currently wired which is Y 460V?
    There are total 3 motors on this lathe Main motor, Rapids motor and cooling pump.
    I did checked the continuity between 12 leads and it is the typical 12 lead wire.
    1-4
    2-5
    3-6
    7-10
    8-11
    9-12
    So if it was a STD wired 12 lead motor why are not 10,11,12 JOINED?
    Cause for a STD wound it should have been L1-1, L2-2, L3-3 and JOIN 4&7,5&8,6&9 and then 10,11,12?

    All my internet searching indicated there are two types of 12 lead wire 3 Phase motor.

    I have never heard of or experience with Y start Delta run motors? Never heard of this. So which one do I have and how to tell.

    1. "Y" Start: Delta Run (12 Leads) name for this kind of "soft" motor starting is Wye-Delta altho Star-Delta is common.
    Speed: Single Phase: 3
    Typical Voltage: Dual 230/460
    Winding: "Y" Start: "Delta" Run
    Special Feature: 12 Leads

    To put it simple, you are applying a lower voltage (wye or "Y") across the motor to start it. At some point after the rotor is turning then full voltage is applied (delta) to get to or maintain full speed at load. The lower voltage is partially done to prevent high start currents. These type starters are very common on large air compressors. A wye connection offers approximately 58% less voltage than a delta.

    Or option 2:

    2 From a blog comment I found this statement :"Or is it a more a standard 9 lead motor with the internal Y brought out as 10,11,12 so it can be connected as a Y or delta?"

    Or another concerning comment: "when installed they find the 12 leads where not for dual voltage but as explained above a single voltage connection with starting options,"


    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    motor_m1_terminals_.jpgenclose.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails enclosure.jpg  
    Last edited by Woodser; 04-20-2017 at 10:36 AM. Reason: added missing information

  2. Likes crcarson26 liked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    California Central Coast
    Posts
    10
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    0
    Likes (Received)
    1

    Default

    Bump - certainly this issue was resolved in the past 3 years, now I’m running into the same question. Anyone know the answer here?

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Geilenkirchen, Germany
    Posts
    2,578
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    1517
    Likes (Received)
    1313

    Default

    I think you misunderstand the issue. That motor is a delta motor. It has 6 coils (12 wires) It is supposed to work in delta mode with these fields coils wired in series (high voltage) or parallel (low voltage). Don't over complicate it. Follow the directions on the cover plate.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Nevada
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    4
    Likes (Received)
    5

    Default

    Hey Guys,

    I am having the exact same problem. The manual does not cover the wiring hookup regarding motor connections for 230V 3Phase power. Can you please send me which wires you hooked up at the motor? I too have the 12HP motor, HB575, and 12 leads at the motor. 6-wire hookup to the motor from the electrical panel. Any information you can send would be great. My lathe is missing the panel with the electrical wiring diagram that is supposedly pasted on the inside.

    Cheers!!

  6. #5
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Country
    UNITED STATES
    State/Province
    Minnesota
    Posts
    21
    Post Thanks / Like
    Likes (Given)
    5
    Likes (Received)
    2

    Default

    This appears to be a 3 phase motor with all 12 leads exposed at the terminals for the purpose of dual voltage connection and star-delta starting. The only weird thing at play here is the wonky layout and nomenclature.

    For the motor, ostensibly you need only connect the jumpers as shown in the motor nameplate diagram to achieve low voltage operation.

    As far as that control cabinet, you will need to change the control transformer primaries from 480V to 240V configuration - or if they are single-voltage primaries, install new ones. You will also need to re-size your conductors, contactors, fuses, overload heaters and terminal blocks. You're going to have to delve deep into Article 430 to make sure everything is kosher. Definitely licensed electrician territory if you aren't 110% confident in what you're doing.


Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •