200 Volt - 3 Phase Motors
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    Default 200 Volt - 3 Phase Motors

    What do I do with a straight 200 Volt, 3 phase motor? Where are they used? I couldn't get it to run.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gjrepesh View Post
    What do I do with a straight 200 Volt, 3 phase motor? Where are they used? I couldn't get it to run.
    Voltage aside, do you even HAVE 3 phase power, or a reasonable approximation of it?

    As to the '200'..

    Go Ogle 'Delta' and 'Wye' (or 'star) 3 phase and their respective nominal voltages, US and Japan.

    Nominal voltages have migrated upward over time. Your 200 'may' be a bit earlier than the 208/416 V era, 'could' be happy on 208 V.

    Or not.

    Photo of the nameplate would help with researching it. Guesswork, otherwise.

    Bill

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    Quote Originally Posted by gjrepesh View Post
    What do I do with a straight 200 Volt, 3 phase motor? Where are they used? I couldn't get it to run.
    More information needed.. at least a picture of motor and nameplate.

    Ray

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    I have been using a rotary phase converter for years. I run 220 volt, 3 phase motors all day long. My converter would not run the 200 volter. I thought it was just on odd ball motor. Certainly not common among all the motors I've run across. Its a 2 HP and came with a 14" Logan lathe purchased 10+ years ago. I changed the motor. Don't plan to use it but wanted to know something about it. Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gjrepesh View Post
    Don't plan to use it but wanted to know something about it. Thanks.
    Could be Japanese.. It's not an AC servo by any chance? Pictures?

    Ray

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    Quote Originally Posted by gjrepesh View Post
    I have been using a rotary phase converter for years. I run 220 volt, 3 phase motors all day long. My converter would not run the 200 volter. I thought it was just on odd ball motor. Certainly not common among all the motors I've run across. Its a 2 HP and came with a 14" Logan lathe purchased 10+ years ago. I changed the motor. Don't plan to use it but wanted to know something about it. Thanks.
    Still need sight of, or transcribed info from, a nameplate to be of help.

    Meanwhile, FWIW, Japan has 200 V, 3-phase @ both 50 Hz and 60 Hz still 'standard'. Unlikely, but not impossible that the old motor was salvaged off a Japanese-market machine tool that was itself being remotored.

    Should have been happy enough on 208, at least run for a test on 220 ... unless, of course, windings are damaged or bearings are petrified.

    As to what it you DO with it? Copper has a decent scrap value...



    Bill

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    If it really IS a 50Hz Japanese motor, then just take a piece of tape and write 240V on it.

    Stick that on the motor by the dataplate.

    Because that is what voltage a Japanese 200V 50Hz motor is when in the US at 60HZ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JST View Post
    If it really IS a 50Hz Japanese motor, then just take a piece of tape and write 240V on it.

    Stick that on the motor by the dataplate.

    Because that is what voltage a Japanese 200V 50Hz motor is when in the US at 60HZ.
    Possibility it was a 60 Hz and is now slow-baked to death 'coz a prior Pilgrim did just that ..... 'stead of running it off 208......


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    This is the plate off a 1953 Cincinnati No.4 from England. 400v 3phase 50cy. So as Thermite said just older stuff before standardization. So apparently England did things like Japan Hz wise. No clue if the machine ran in the US like this, it was remotored for 220 3ph 60hz long before I got it. Just posted the information for a time and machine reference.

    dsc06926.jpg

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    The Hz only affects the speed. If a 50 HZ motor is run maxed out on 60 Hz it might have a cooling problem but very few machine tool motors run maxed out for any length of time.It is more likely that a 60 Hz motor on 50 Hz would have a cooling problem since it's fan is 20% slower. For all practical purposes it just means that a 50Hz motor will run 20% faster on 60 Hz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdmidget View Post
    The Hz only affects the speed. If a 50 HZ motor is run maxed out on 60 Hz it might have a cooling problem but very few machine tool motors run maxed out for any length of time.It is more likely that a 60 Hz motor on 50 Hz would have a cooling problem since it's fan is 20% slower. For all practical purposes it just means that a 50Hz motor will run 20% faster on 60 Hz.
    Yes you are correct, that's pretty much it. we get 60Hz motors from time to time, ( mains in Australia, and most of the civilized world is 50hz 240V ) and 60Hz rated motors run just fine on 50Hz just a bit slower... there is a voltage issue if you want to keep to constant v/hz curve, but in practice you don't have to drop the voltage for 50hz, the transition from constant torque to constant horsepower is when you run out of volts, not hz.

    There is another slightly related issue with transformers that are designed for 50hz being run at 60hz... because the heating of the transformer core relates to the hysteresis losses, and the losses occur each cycle the result is more cycles per second means transformers run hotter at 60hz than they do on 50hz.

    Most countries in the world run 50hz mains.

    Still can't help the OP any further without some pictures...

    Ray

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    motor label.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 200-v-3ph-60-hz.jpg  

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    This thread is what happens when the description is not "200V 3 phase 60Hz"

    And especially when there really IS a place that would truly use that, all except the "60 Hz " part.....

    Somebody seems not to have seen the "if it really IS" art of the quote...

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    Quote Originally Posted by gjrepesh View Post
    motor label.
    Curious. Just the label-type sez it is not an antique.

    Closest I found was a mere 1/3 HP, obsolete not-quite-match.

    But note the first part of the voltage rating in "200-230/460VAC" and the two RPM's spec'ed:

    5K38SN240S
    Manufactured by GENERAL ELECTRIC
    MOTOR 1/3HP 200-230/460VAC 50/60HZ 3PH 1140/950RPM
    Weight: 22 lbs

    That one should have a multi-tap arrangement. Two-speed, typical of HVAC air-handlers.
    Your one would not.

    Cheap as used 1 HP are, not sure I'd waste any further time on it.

    Bill

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    Use a vfd to run it. Requires a few parameter changes but it will work fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterlogged View Post
    Use a vfd to run it. Requires a few parameter changes but it will work fine.
    ....not if it didn't run AT ALL on ignorant 230/240 VAC 3-P @ 60 Hz ... which the OP already attempted .. it won't.

    Seems to be damaged.

    Bill

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    It's not so oddball. It's likely just a 200 volt motor for a 208 supply like 220 is to 240, and 460 is to 480 - develops full power at a lower voltage to make up for voltage drop in the feeders or whatever.

    My genuine US Motors BP motor is 200v. I run it on 240 all day long.

    I agree with Bill - if it doesn't "run" on 240, something is wrong with it.

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    A motor that doesn't run is generally NFG, unless some easy problem is involved.

    Out of curiosity....did you ohmmeter it? I looked over the thread and didn't see that.

    You should get same resistance between any pairs of the 3 input wires. if not, you can look to see if it has any easy reason, like a thermal protector that went bad. It's common to have a thermal on motors up to 1 HP (in lieu of a "motor controller with protection"), and they often connect the 3 wires at the wye point, because it's easy.

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    I don't have much background in checking motors. I can perform tests I am made aware of. This is not a pressing issue but am curious enough to follow the suggestions and see whats there. Thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by JST View Post
    Out of curiosity....did you ohmmeter it? I looked over the thread and didn't see that.

    You should get same resistance between any pairs of the 3 input wires. if not, you can look to see if it has any easy reason, like a thermal protector that went bad. It's common to have a thermal on motors up to 1 HP (in lieu of a "motor controller with protection"), and they often connect the 3 wires at the wye point, because it's easy.

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    There are two "Classes" of voltages un the US: Distribution Voltage and Utilization Voltage. Distribution is what the utilities deliver: 480, 240, 208 etc. utilization is what the equipment, i.e. motor, manufacturers design to, which allows for a certain amount of expected voltage drop between the distribution connection and the motor termination. The Utilization Voltage is always lower. So for 480V, it is 460V, for 240V it is 230V, and for 208V it is 200V. That's what you have.

    Because of the volume of 208V 3 phase distribution systems in commercial installations, many motor mfrs sell a motor rated for anywhere from 200-240V. It's really a compromise, but they don't say that. you would get better motor life on a 208V system using a motor nameplated at 200V.

    PS, as others have said, there is nothing about the voltage rating that would make it not work on a 240V 3 phase system (although it would run hot and not last long). So if it failed to start, it was something else.

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