440 60Hz motor on 380 50Hz supply

odl21 · Sep 26, 2015

Hello,

I have a four machines I'm setting up to run on my 380V 50Hz supply:

1) Lathe - 220/440 60Hz 5hp
2) Mill - 230 60Hz 2hp (motor plate says it can run at 50hz 380V)
3) Surface Grinder - 220/440 60Hz 1hp
4) Surfacer - 208-220/440 60/50Hz 2hp

I've attached photos of the motor plates. My options for each one are:
a) replace the motor
b) wire them for 440 and run at decreased frequency and voltage of 380/50
c) use a VFD to output 60Hz at 220V or 440V.

given the motors and their uses, what do you think would be best?

Mark Rand · Sep 27, 2015

Set them up for 440/60 and run them at 380/50. There should be no problems with that.

Peter from Holland · Sep 27, 2015

380volt 50Hz supply in the US ???

you run your own generator then ???

Anyhow I was once told by someone knowlagable that a 400V50 Hz motor is phisicly the same as a 440V 60Hz So you are only 5% offThat should not be a problem

Peter from holland

odl21 · Sep 27, 2015

Thanks. I'll do that then. It's not in the US. It's in Italy.

I also have a few 220/60 single phase motors, from 1/3 to 3 hp, that seem to run ok on 220/50. Anything I should watch out for there?

steve-l · Sep 27, 2015

You will have no problems running your 440 60Hz motors on 380 50Hz. Be prepared for overheating your 220 60Hz motors on 220 50Hz, usually that does NOT work well, but it depends on how the motors are wound. Dual capacitor motors as seen on air compressors do work.

Peter from Holland · Sep 27, 2015

RPM is different off coarse But you probably know that already
60Hz is 120% of 50Hz

BTW It even might be that Italy has 400volts 3Ph
That is the new norm in Europe

Peter from holland

odl21 · Sep 27, 2015

Yes, RPM is indeed not an concern.

One of the 3hp single's is indeed a compressor. I guess if it fails I just whack a 3hp 3ph 400v motor on there.

Others are for things like tire changer, parts washer pump etc that run for short periods.

One is a 3hp hydraulic pump on a two post lift that is harder to replace but again only runs for a few seconds at a time and rarely.

I guess the air moving motors inside my flow bench will get too hot at 50hz so I may need to locate replacements for that.

The electrician who wired the place told me it is 380, but I admit I haven't tested it myself. I think 400 is just the accepted mean across EU. Nobody ripped out their existing 380 utility equipment to replace it with 400 after EU standardisation.

Peter from Holland · Sep 27, 2015

odl21 said:
. Nobody ripped out their existing 380 utility equipment to replace it with 400 after EU standardisation.

No They only change the high voltage transformers to a 5% higher voltage That way they have 5% more capacity over the same network too
Exept the UK off coarse They have to lower their voltage It used to be 420 volts

Peter from holland

odl21 · Sep 27, 2015

peterve said:
No They only change the high voltage transformers to a 5% higher voltage That way they have 5% more capacity over the same network too
Exept the UK off coarse They have to lower their voltage It used to be 420 volts

Peter from holland

i will measure it next time i'm there (looking for 230 on the single phase instead of 220). the utility company contract also states 380.

Dag S K · Sep 27, 2015

Generally you get 5/6 of the speed, and 5/6 of the power. This may cause harder working motors, and hot motors. In addition lower frequency has a demand of higher amount of magnetic material, and again watch the temperature. Single phase motors may often have capacitors, these may be needed to change, If you have the possibility to watch the motors when they work at full load, do so before considering changes. Again watch the temperature.

dsk

TDegenhart · Sep 27, 2015

Magnetically, you are ok. 460/60 is the same as 380/50 from a volts/hz standpoint.

Tom

odl21 · Oct 29, 2015

Thanks guys. All the 3 phase motors seem to work fine at 380/50. I measured the voltage and it is indeed 380 / 220. The single phase dual capacitor 3hp air compressor motor works fine too, as does a cheap 1/2hp band saw motor. There is a hydraulic lift pump motor (3hp single phase) that I've not yet tested but the supplier told me it won't work on 50hz. If not, can I just change the capacitor?

TDegenhart · Oct 29, 2015

odl21 said:
Thanks guys. All the 3 phase motors seem to work fine at 380/50. I measured the voltage and it is indeed 380 / 220. The single phase dual capacitor 3hp air compressor motor works fine too, as does a cheap 1/2hp band saw motor. There is a hydraulic lift pump motor (3hp single phase) that I've not yet tested but the supplier told me it won't work on 50hz. If not, can I just change the capacitor?

That should be all that is needed. The capacitance will need to be increased by 6/5 ration of what you have now.

Tom

JasonPAtkins · Nov 5, 2015

I have done exactly what you're describing with a fair number of tools, bringing 3ph American stuff over to West Africa, where we run 400v/50Hz. From practical experience, I can echo what others are saying.

Contactors and 460V motors work just fine (motors spin slower, as noted).

230V 1ph 60hz motors don't last long at 230/50. (Craftsman compressor and Jet motors both died within a few months.) I suppose a super high SF motor might weather the difference better.

odl21 · Nov 5, 2015

Indeed my single phase compressor tripped the breaker under high load today and draws 20amps under normal operation. This one really does need to full power. I ordered a 3hp 3 phase 50hz motor to replace it. Only $180. Some motors are much harder to replace though being geared or in custom cases. It's basically just a boring bar 110v motor left to sort out now. I decided to replace the 3hp lift motor/pump with a 50hz 3 phase too. That one is $500 though.

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