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Bridgeport series 2 4hp

saif

Plastic
Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Hello everyone ,

New to the forums here, have frequented here a bit but caught myself searching on a topic which has been beaten to death.

Just purchased a bridgeport series 2 mill with 4hp head , has power feed as well. Trying to wire up the unit and from what I found searching is that VFD is the way to go. Now the most common ones I'm finding is teco 1hp or 3hp converters , which vfd do you guys recommend for my 4hp motor? My Bridgeport has a huge control box on the back which may have been used as cnc? Not really sure but the power feeds are wired to the boards in there . Assuming I would bypass the entire thing , wire directly to the motor and wire up the power feeds to 120v?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks
 
You need to go larger for the spindle VFD - 5 hp in this case.

Can't wire power feeds to this. My series II from long time ago use 3 phase on power feed so another VFD for these would work. If you really have 110 power feeds, life is easy.

Karl
 
Is/was it a CNC? If CNC, it'll not have hand-wheels, or manual quill, and will have servo motors etc. connected to drive-boards in the electrical box (along with a bunch of other wiring/boards). That's a whole different animal and no easy solution.

Karl was referring to the fact that (if it's not cnc), and they are just "feed motors" (not CNC), they could be either 3-phase, or 120 volt feed motors. If three-phase, you cannot run multiple motors at the same time from a single VFD. If they are 120 volt motors, they can be wired directly to 120v.

Here are some pics to help show what i'm working with. Thanks for the replies everyone.


Bridgeport series 2 4hp - Album on Imgur
 
On that model, you would be much better off with an RPC, both less expensive and much easier to integrate. Since it has a mechanical speed control for the head, the use of VFD is moot and you would need a 5Hp VFD single phase input or 7.5 Hp 3 phase derated VFD for the main drive motor which run around $600+ for the better ones. If I Recall on some models the feed drives are DC and run off of 2 phases of the 3 phase. Phase Perfect would be a much more expensive option.

A 5 Hp single phase input VFD are uncommon, some of the lower priced ones have questionable specs and durability. I have installed a number of Yaskawa 5Hp single phase VFDs, otherwise I use a larger 3 phase unit and derate for single phase input.
5 hp VFD, 1 phase to 3 phase VFD | GoHz.com
Yaskawa AC Frequency Drives In-Stock. State Motor & Control Solutions. Shop Online
 
I am more a fan of VFDs than MKSJ.

This looks like originally a manual machine with a power on the table lift only. I am not seeing power feed on X and Y.

Yep a VFD will cost you a bit more and you will need a separate VFD for the table lift as I would be surprised if it is not also three phase.


This drive, while not rated 3phase, will work on your spindle
GS2-25P0 | AC Micro Drive: 230 VAC, 5hp with 3-phase input, (VFD) (PN# GS2-25P0) | AutomationDirect

Cost is $375

This one to run your table

Search

cost is $180.


There are a few other bits and prices that will run another $150 or so.
If you go this route, I will help you. many other will chime in also.


yep, an RPC will work too. If you plan on a large shop these are less expensive.
 
I do a lot of VFD installs on different equipment and I am big fan of them, but not sure I agree in this case.

The Z axis table lift drive is DC, it typically taps off of 2 phases of the incoming 3 phase so there is no need for a VFD for this drive. I recall looking at this for another person for the same mill model, but don't have the schematic. It also looks like the GS2 VFD line is being phased out, as none are listed as in stock. There are single phase VFDs up to 5Hp, otherwise you would need a 7.5Hp VFD 3 phase input to run a 4 Hp motor. If you look at the new replacement Durapulse GS4 line, they rate their 10 Hp 3 phase input VFD for only 3 Hp on single phase input. You are pretty much talking a total rewiring of the machine if converting to a VFD, not a problem if you are comfortable with that. Also with the Reeves drives, the use of a VFD if used to adjust the speed will cause uneven wear on the drive and also decreased performance below the motor's base speed. A 5Hp RPC would cost about the same as a VFD, less if you build it yourself, and it could be used with other 3 phase machinery.
 
there is a small motor for the auto feed tucked under the table as well for the X access and the 2 big dc motors on outside. so you guys think the easiest thing to do is get rid of the whole control panel and those 90v dc motors? i would like to do a cnc retrofit on the machine so id like to do everything at once.

thanks
 
I would very highly recommend not to do a CNC retrofit at once.

Since You would probably do a terrible job in multiple ways for multiple reasons both economical and technical.
It is not hard/difficult to do a *good* cnc retrofit.
But quite a lot of work.
I have done rebuilds upto modern industrial levels.

But there are endless second-level gotchas, not documented anywhere.
And 99% of problems are only really solved with proper hw that is NOT what you expect and is somewhat expensive and has its own set of second-level dependency issues.

So whenever you save 100$, or 200$, per axis, you probably cripple 98% of the good stuff later on.

Recap:
Don´t use steppers.
Use ac brushless servos, 5000 count encoders or up.
These need a good hw controller. How is the support, docs, samples, faqs ?
Use an ac servo spindle, not VFD.
You need 50+ IO lines on the controller, 7 per servo, +/-. + 25 IO lines for (each) MPG. Etc..

Poor:
One can make a dirt-cheap stepper-cnc mill ..
with terrible resolution, holding, rigidity, acceleration, no mpg. (poor Speed. Mostly irrelevant).
Better:
Making the thing 5-10x better costs only 100-150$ more per axis, plus a bit.
And 30$ in steel and some hours of work, per axis, per component, 2-4 of.
Plus some 30$ bearings.
Skill.
Research.
Fab work.

To get good results you need industrial stuff like linear guides, or automatic oiling on gibs/ways (cheap to do).
Screws need more rigid mounts. Tensioning ideally. Ballscrews ideally. Thicker screws.
Double nuts. Oiling.
Big couplers to servos, or rigid couplers and very very good adjustment and setup.

The components as such are not very expensive, per piece, but probably cost a bit more than You thought.
And you need more of them, and they need to be bigger, and you need to build stuff like more rigid mounts and screw tensioners, very easy to do, cheap in materials, but the hours add up.
Chip shields.

E.
400W AC servos, 220V, 5000 count, 3000 rpm, cost 300€ with 22% VAT here in Spain, EU, full kit.

Steppers for decent results cost about 200€. (80V+ chinese steppers+drives).
The servos are more than 10x better.
Anyone using steppers for work/work is mistaken.

It costs about 4000$ in stuff for a good cnc mill retrofit.
500 kHz+ controller with high speed hw/fw support for probing, limits, tapping, mpg, servos, spindle.
4 axis, 100+ IO, 1 MPG, boxes, io lines, cables, conduits, ferrules, crimping, 24V DC (ideally) IO PSUs.
Cable conduits, guides, passthroughs.
Signals for each servo for hold, fault, enable, inpos, z index, and usually +/- differential signalling.
Couplers, mounts, sheetmetal, paint.

4k is for 3 axis small servos, 400W.
Add spindle, 2.5 kW == 2000 $.

A cheapie stepper driven Bp can be made to do good/excellent work.
Very slowly.
Belt drives for high resolution, special posts or hand coding, probing and macros.
Tool selection and multiple finish passes.

Pretty good accuracies, small feature sizes, and great results are possible.
With skill, experience, and often adjusting stuff multiple times for good results.
It´s somewhat finicky, and very slow and unproductive.
It is just barely possible, but hard and slow and needs constant fiddling for excellent results.


My experience and opinion is that making hand sized parts of high accuracy and good finish, in steels, is about 5-10x more productive with the "good" retrofit than the "cheap" retrofit.
Rigidity is everything.
 
Series 2

Here are some pics to help show what i'm working with. Thanks for the replies everyone.


Bridgeport series 2 4hp - Album on Imgur
I have identical machine you have x-y motor in pic but no z they are dc so I’m not really sure how that would work with vfd. I am planning to change out spindle motor and drive for vfd controlled motor and poly groove drive but since I have 3 phase I will still run dc to drives. I have bare bones wiring diagram and could do voltage checks for you. I think transformer is 240-480 on 2 legs of 3 phase which I would think would work with single phase but you might want to check with electrician. If you look up behind knee lift shaft there should what looks like a 6 1/2” square with a worm wheel in it if that’s there you still have top of z motor gear box if not I know some one that is junking several of them. Hope that helps.
 








 
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