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Citizen Cincom F12 3 Phase Power

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Plastic
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
New boat anchor arrived this past weekend.

It is a Swiss machine - Citizen Cincom F12, I have no experience with swiss turning although my brother does.

Have a VFD for my manual mill, but I'm wondering how I am going to power this.
I have the power company coming to give me a quote on 3 phase, but I'm thinking it will be cost prohibitive.

I know some guys on here power CNCs with RPCs, but I am also considering the phase perfect.

I am thinking that the grey box that came with it is a 208-480 step-up transformer, but I am not sure.

Anybody have experience with these machines?



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Just got the quote back from the power company for 3-phase to my garage: $9,899.73 plus 7% tax

I'm thinking about a Phase Perfect 30HP (~$8,000) - this may be overkill, but I want the capacity for future machines.
I am thinking that the Phase Perfect would be better for CNCs than a rotary.
 
If the power company quoted that...why buy a phase converter???

30hp only runs 1 machine and for a little more you can run many machines.

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Yes,

This would be a secondary service.
They would put a pole in my front yard and provide a separate commercial meter for the garage.

Basically, it would be a non-residential without demand. The rate is close to what I am paying now for my house.

The service is for less than 5 kWs. If I exceed 2,000 kWh per month for 2 consecutive months they would install a demand meter.

The demand charge is $9.79 per kW and $0.00261 per kWh + other typical fees.

Leaning toward the phase perfect because I the electric company’s quote doesn’t include digging the 18” trench to my garage or the wire from the pole they put in to my garage.
 
So I ended up going with an American Rotary AD20 and got the swiss fired up.

Seems to work fine jogging around, but the VFD is bad.
It is a Yaskawa Varispeed 616G3 - some components are surely fried.

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I know for sure that a resistor is fried, and it looks like other diodes and caps may be too.
Is it even worth attempting to repair this board by soldering on new components?

Don't really want to get a new used VFD - they are ~$500...

Has anyone ever repaired PCBs successfully?

Just to be clear - the drive was already not working before the machine entered my shop.


A couple photos of the damage:

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Not to be nosy, but what did you pay for it? I remember one on E-bay for like $3k about a 6 months ago and I think it was in the Northeast. Considering all the rest of the components on that drive are probably ticking time bombs, if it were me I would just buy a new modern drive. I am sure Yaskawa will recommend and sell a substitute and they are more than helpful trying to configure it. I configured a new one on a Fanuc 21T on a 15 year old machine a while back. Yaskawa provides very detailed instructions and will help over the phone and by e-mail. Do you have the manual for the old one? What control is on that machine? I used to run those exact same machines working for an aerospace connector manufacturer in the late 80's thru mid 90's. Good luck!

P.S. A thread in the CNC Machining sub form would likely attract more help for your problems than here.
 
Yes I will need all the luck I can get.
I did not pay anything for the machine - just had to move it.

I do have a PDF of the manual I found.

The control is a Fanuc 3T.

I was thinking about a modern drive, but I am thinking there would be quite a bit of configuring to do.
 
Yes I will need all the luck I can get.
I did not pay anything for the machine - just had to move it.

I do have a PDF of the manual I found.

The control is a Fanuc 3T.

I was thinking about a modern drive, but I am thinking there would be quite a bit of configuring to do.

What year was the machine made? Glad you only paid to move it. Can you get the drive to power up to use the digital operator or is it totally dead?
 
It is a 1983 - pretty old.
The drive being bad along with the machine being ancient was the reason they were going to scrap it.

No I could not get the operator to turn on at all - no display.
I probed it, and I did have the proper input voltage going in on RST.
 
I don't want to twist my head looking at the pictures, how many HP is the motor? I have a sneaking suspicion the model I put in mine will work on yours and since it is only a few years old probably is still made. I might be able to look at what you have on yours and tell you what maybe involved. I forgot what I paid for I think about $600.
 
It is a 2.2 kW (3HP) motor for the spindle,

Without going out and checking that number rings a bell as my machine I put on is a 12MM punched out to a 16MM, it is a Star Se model. Even though it is 18 years newer than yours it is a very basic machine without options, it probably won't do anything yours won't. For that reason I believe you won't suffer anymore than I did configuring a new one. Can you identify all the connections made to the inverter? There weren't any stray wires or cut ones?
 
Not any cut wires - only the wires I disconnected, I think I will be able to map out all the connections.

What do you mean you "punched it out" to 16mm?

I know they made the Citizen F12 and F16 that are essentially the same machine... interested in how you got the extra capacity.
 
Not any cut wires - only the wires I disconnected, I think I will be able to map out all the connections.

What do you mean you "punched it out" to 16mm?

I know they made the Citizen F12 and F16 that are essentially the same machine... interested in how you got the extra capacity.

It was done by Star when new, I got the machine used, just a different headstock collet receptor, collet spring and a different revolving bushing assembly, but nothing else is different from a 12mm. So you can just run bigger stock, still uses puny 3/8 square tool blanks, no motor upgrade and only has a 4" Z stroke. It is an overhead gang with 5 turning tool positions 3 end drilling. Way different than what you have.
 
I just downloaded the quick start guide on the drive series I think might work on your machine from Yaskawa.com. It is only 5 MB so I think I could attach it to an e-mail. I could not figure out how to provide you a download link. It could be my ad blocker was interfering with it. If you would like to private message me your e-mail I will send it to you. It shows all the connections with a trouble shooting guide.
 








 
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