Disassemble GE Type KC Electric Motor From South Bend Lathe

The motor on my South Bend lathe was running (forward only), but the large (start?) capacitor was hanging by the wires and the motor assembly wasn't bolted in. So, I took out the motor assembly with the intent of at least replacing the wires on the capacitor (and trying to see if I could make it work in reverse).

The wires had exposed spots through the insulation, and in the process of removing the entire motor assembly (motor, pulleys, mount that locates motor within the lathe), they broke. I don't know if I have enough exposed wire to do a splice to reconnect the capacitor, so I started trying to disassemble the motor to get at the internal wire connections.

I got stuck after removing the four long bolts. This motor seems to have bearings at each side that are to be lubricated via little cups (with caps that lift to oil). I've searched online but can't find a diagram for this motor, or a photo or video that shows how to remove the bearings. Maybe the GE emblem comes off and there are screws under it? I'm stumped. Thanks for any help.

I have a gear puller, but I'm not seeing if I need it or how to apply it.

The complete model number is: 5KC63AB905

It is a 1725 rpm 1/2 HP 115 volt motor.

Ken

Chuck it and get a new motor, 3/4 to 1hp.

Thanks! I sat down to post "Never mind", but I appreciate your very quick response!

I need to use the lathe ASAP, so I kept messing with it and even brought in my wife, who suggested I try prying it apart at the seam. I used a little "gentle persuasion" at the hole the capacitor wires came through and saw some movement. Careful prying (trying not to mar or damage anything) got it loose pretty easily. I'm going to replace the capacitor wires and replace any bad looking wires and try and get this thing into service the day my new belt arrives...

The clue that helped us was a raised area of the casting by the seam that looked like it was meant to be tapped on. That and my wife's better eyesight and mechanical aptitude!

Ken

I've never pried one apart at the seam, but if it gets you where you need to go, get'er done. I'd still suggest upgrade for more hp, seems like now would be a good time, thankfully they just bolt on and not integral to the machine.

Good advice! Thanks.

I have a bunch of tools I need to make ASAP, otherwise now would be the best time to replace the motor!

Good news is I think I got the wiring back in working order inside the motor and maybe tomorrow I can get it all bolted together and ready for the belt!

Now I just have to figure out how to install a drill chuck in the tailstock and I'm ready to go (I hope)!

I should clarify that by "seam", I mean where the back cap joins the main body. Despite the heavy piece on the very end and the spring loaded oil cup (which I thought indicated a possibility of a pressed bearing which might need a gear puller to remove), it came off with about the same ease as other motors I have disassembled. Hope that helps if somebody else can't find instructions online for taking apart this motor.

On mine, looks like somebody was trying to trouble shoot the lack of reverse (as a guess), and lost the screws that hold the capacitor and relay to the motor. I'm going to settle for forward speed for now and start looking for a replacement motor (and/or troubleshoot the motor relay and lathe forward/reverse switch) in the future. The wires are really showing their age, but the only ones needing immediate replacement are the ones the heavy capacitor was hanging from.

Thanks again!

Ken

I should clarify that by "seam", I mean where the back cap joins the main body. Despite the heavy piece on the very end and the spring loaded oil cup (which I thought indicated a possibility of a pressed bearing which might need a gear puller to remove), it came off with about the same ease as other motors I have disassembled. Hope that helps if somebody else can't find instructions online for taking apart this motor.

On mine, looks like somebody was trying to trouble shoot the lack of reverse (as a guess), and lost the screws that hold the capacitor and relay to the motor. I'm going to settle for forward speed for now and start looking for a replacement motor (and/or troubleshoot the motor relay and lathe forward/reverse switch) in the future. The wires are really showing their age, but the only ones needing immediate replacement are the ones the heavy capacitor was hanging from.

Thanks again!

Ken

So you removed the endbells? That sounds better than splitting it at the seam. If you can get to cap wires to fix them great, otherwise its probably not worth the time/effort, unless you have time to burn. Unless there is something special about that motor, I would be looking for a new/used replacement, just make sure rpm is correct and its reversible. If pulley on motor is specific to the lathe the shaft size of motor may be important too.

Is the motor/switch wired for reverse? There was a similar post last week with same problem, maybe it was you, I forget.

Drill chuck in tailstock is easy, just stick it in, unless you don't have one yet?

I didn't know that's what they are called! I removed only one (opposite the pulley), and used butt splices to add wire to replace the capacitor wires where the insulation was missing.

Funny about the seam. When I was cleaning up the motor, I found where a seam across the motor (parallel to the shaft) had been welded! The mounting holes for the capacitor were stripped, so I enlarged and tapped them. I'm glad they were blind holes, as I was concerned drilling in and hitting the coils...

Motor looks to be original (I could be wrong, but it has some sort of weird proprietary mount), and is theoretically wired to run forward or reverse. Could well be a bad or incorrect connection somewhere. Relay is hanging loose, so maybe somebody was trying to trouble shoot. I can't complain, as I got it for free from a friend a few years ago! Of course, I've been too busy to work on it until now, when I absolutely have to...

I appreciate the advice. I will definitely need it when I try to hunt down a motor. I've got a drill chuck in the mail, and should have the belt soon, too.

It is missing a bolt/screw on the three jaw chuck. I need to track one down; but again, I need to drill some holes with it as soon as I get it running.

I'll have to check that other thread. It wasn't me - this is the first time I've posted here in a few years (though I've come here on searches).

Every time I've asked for help on this forum folks have been very helpful. More than that, there are countless questions, answers, and helpful posts. What a great forum. I'm glad my good experiences on primitive skills forums led me to come here hoping for suggestions and guidance!

Thanks again!

Ken

Oh, I was concerned about whether I could get the live center out of the tail stock and if the quill worked (missing a zerk fitting); and since I didn't have a chuck wrench I couldn't remove the work piece left in it (to stabilize during transport?) to assess the tail stock. I finally took a few minutes and found a multiple point socket that fit the chuck screws and was able to see that I should be able to use the drill chuck no problem.

Ken

Update: I got the thing all put back together, and the motor will run, but only for about five or ten seconds. Looks like there was a reason someone had been taking it apart.

I looked at motors, and the frame type 66 isn't offered anymore, so I am planning on fabricating a mount for a type 56 frame motor. I'm looking at putting in a Leeson 1 HP three phase motor with VFD (just have to find a pulley for it, as the shaft size is different).

I feel like this motor and VFD will allow me to both reverse the machine (avoiding the original reverse switch, which seems to need repair/modification) and run it at very low speed, which will be useful for what I intend it for. I have found the ability to quickly adjust speed very helpful on other machines, so I hope this is a good idea.

Any thoughts on this motor before I proceed?

Thanks!

Ken

Ken Villars said:

Update: I got the thing all put back together, and the motor will run, but only for about five or ten seconds.
Ken

Click to expand...

the oil in the bushings is most likely gummed up. in a pinch you can use any light oil in a spray can and shoot it into the bushing. dump motor oil (anything from 0w-20 to 10w-30 is fine) and pour it in the oil fill ports.

there is a wick wrapped around the bushing that should be saturated with oil. it may not exist any more

Thanks very much for your reply!

Are you referring to bushings in the motor? I am hoping to replace the original motor with a modern motor and VFD (the original motor seems to have some electrical trouble related to the relay).

I wonder if the bushings on the spindle with the three flat wheels that drive the lathe are good? I will make sure and oil them (and the rest of the machine) before using it.

I ordered an adapter so I could use the original pulley on my new motor (5/8" to 3/4"). Seemed like less of a headache than trying to find another pulley. It came off very easily with a gear puller.

Does anybody have an opinion on using the Leeson 1HP and VFD to drive my South Bend 9A lathe?

Ken

I was referring to the bushings in the motor as you said the motor runs but only 5 or 10 seconds.

The lathe spindle bearings are much higher priority. Relax the belts and see if the belt slips or if the motor stalls on its own.

Thanks! I do not have a belt connected to the spindles yet. I did run the motor on its own, and it stalls nearly as quickly (but slightly longer run time, maybe one or two seconds longer, if I'm not mistaken). I'm afraid that motor is a lost cause as far as I can see. I tripped the relay while it was running to see if it would run longer, but that only made some sparks and stopped it right away (since it caused a change for the worse rather than the better, I tend to rule out the relay as the problem).

I'm in the process of fabricating a mount for a different motor.

Ken

Just an update on my lathe:

I bought a motor off of eBay and started fabricating a motor mount that would fit it (C-face mount). When it arrived, I was dismayed to see that in nearly every respect, the description on eBay had been wrong. So, I bought another motor. This one was the correct rpm, 56 frame and C face mount, with the correct shaft size for the pulley I had purchased. Since I had already made the mount, I went ahead and used it, even though it is a bit tough to adjust the motor belt (v-belt). It is doable, at least...

I wired it up with a VFD (after returning the more expensive one for the motor I had been shipped and purchasing the appropriate one), and scavenged my spare serpentine belt from a non-running vehicle (and if I don't get that vehicle running, the belt it has in it will become my spare lathe belt) and stitched it together with nylon string after drilling some holes. Yes, there is a slight bump, but I haven't been doing anything precise enough to worry about it yet.

So... I only had a little 1/4" tool holder and I started making improvised tools by cutting off teeth from a carbide tipped circular saw blade and welding them to 1/4" steel. As jankity as that all sounds, I was able to make a couple tools I needed for further down the line from the lathe. I did some research and purchased a nice wedge style tool post with tool holders, as well as some tools. Meanwhile, I really needed the lathe to drill some holes in 1" Delrin for some tools I am hoping to sell. I purchased a cheap drill chuck for the tail stock, and started playing with it. Thank God, everything worked great! The slowest part of the operation was getting the long thin cylinder straight in the chuck. With some experimentation, I found that the Delrin had a bit of a set in it, and I learned to quickly bend it fairly straight (within acceptable parameters for what I was doing) fairly quickly. My last pieces went much faster than the first day.

I am preparing to clean up and completely re-lube the cross slide, as it is very stiff. The tail stock was originally also very stiff, but after lubing it every day when using it (along with every oil port I could find on the rest of the machine) it became so nice and completely free that it spins almost like fishing reel when there is no pressure on it.

I have more work to do on on the lather other than that, but I'm thankful to all who helped; and I thought you might like to know I am at least spinning and cutting!

Next project: I hope to hook up my K and T horizontal mill with a VFD. I am looking for a vertical head attachment for it as well, as I need to use it for drilling and tapping operations.

Ken Villars

Get some high speed steel blanks and learn how to grind them, its really not that hard, and probably easier than making tools from hacked up circular saw blades.

Good advice, thanks! I actually tried making some HSS cutting tools (from drill rod I had on hand), but I have a lot to learn about tool angles and shapes. As poor as my improvised carbide tools were, they worked better than my first HSS cutter!

I will definitely explore that direction; but in the meantime, I have the carbide tools I bought along with my tool post.

Definitely would recommend a VFD to anyone looking to upgrade their lathe. One consideration for anyone thinking about this is the big bump in VFD price if you go higher than 1 HP for your motor... Just a heads up. It is very convenient to be able to change speeds with the dial, and reverse just as easily.

Ken