Haas-Kamp conversion for Miller CP-300, and CP-302 200-230-460 - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Hi Ben,
    I picked this one up with a newer Miller CP-250TS, a few feeders, and a lot of wire for a Miller XMT-304 I rebuilt (couple hundred into that one), so I was happy with the trade. I almost converted the CP-250TS (still have the capacitors), but a boat builder wanted it. The OCV is high - it pegged the meter when I had the dial set to 33V (I have a switch in parallel with the 24V remote contactor leads so I can run it with a VS feeder). The OCV doesn't really matter much, just because the transformer Dynamics are very different when it actually pulls a load. I took a video of the panel, but haven't figured out an easy way to get it posted on here - it was showing just over 29V and 305 amps, which is this welder's rated load. I just picked up a new contactor, which resolved all issues. I tried cleaning up the old contactor, but think it was buzzing in use for too long and damaged the armature beyond repair.

    Best Regards,
    Jon

  2. #42
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    How does one come upon a CP weldsr for $23? Not $20, not even $25. $23 was the magic number of bills you had in your pocket?
    Anyhow, I just scored a CP302 and I'm going to run it on my 20hp RPC. If for any reason I dont like it, I will be attempting this conversion.
    As for my other CP300 I recently acquired, it has been determined by a buddy at a local welder repair shop that it needs a contactor and also fan motor. I haven't personally inspected the contactor but I googled the part number they quoted and it appears its a unique contactor with a solid copper "bar" across the top. Not sure if it has replaceable contacts or not but would anyone here have a cheaper alternative to the $200+ fan motor and $200 contactor they say it needs?
    They inspected it as a favor to me so I'm out nothing more than fuel going to pick it up.

  3. #43
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    I believe they quoted
    Fan motor - Miller p/n 238626 and
    Contactor - Miller p/n 252907

  4. #44
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    Just buy an XMT304, you will be making professional welds in less than 1 hour.

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    Paul,

    I can't help you on the fan motor, but please don't spend that kind of money on a contactor. The contactor is a C25FNF360 - mine is a Cutler hamer definite purpose. I paid $30 for my replacement contactor. The XMTs are great machines, but even getting a used working one, I still spend $200-$300 on top of the buying price to ensure they're good to go. I swap out the buss capacitors (2700uF, 450V beasts) and depending on the year, I swap out the bleed resistors, then check torque specs on every component throughout the machine. Any loose connection can make for voltage spikes, which kills the XMTs' expensive electronic components. And those capacitors have a shelf life, which depends not only on use, but lack of use as well. My XMTs and Thermal Arc 400GMS machines are great, but this CP300 has so much more power, and if the motor caps go, doesn't kill anything important except maybe an input switch. Much more piece of mind. The cheapest I have sourced/repaired a Miller XMT was $100 for the broken machine, and just under $200 for a set of buss capacitors I found on eBay (got.lucky those didn't take out the input rectifier). That's if everything is working, and it seems like every problem component on an inverter takes out the components before it. The inverters normally cost me at least $600 to source and repair, and go for around $1000 minimum when working. These CPs aren't as cheap around me as Ben can find them, but they usually come with feeders for about the same price I can buy a broken XMT. Just my thoughts...

    Jon

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    Paul, the motor is a 1/12hp 1550rpm, 230V. I will see if I can find the specs, but much like the contactor, I can usually find the OEM part much cheaper than the Miller part. The FASCO fans may fit and cost about$60, so you're probably looking at $160 to get it running on single phase with the needed repairs and motor caps. It may be better as a donor or to benefit from a donor, depending on how the rest of it looks.

    Jon

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    Quote Originally Posted by jjohn76 View Post
    Paul,

    I can't help you on the fan motor, but please don't spend that kind of money on a contactor. The contactor is a C25FNF360 - mine is a Cutler hamer definite purpose. I paid $30 for my replacement contactor. The XMTs are great machines, but even getting a used working one, I still spend $200-$300 on top of the buying price to ensure they're good to go. I swap out the buss capacitors (2700uF, 450V beasts) and depending on the year, I swap out the bleed resistors, then check torque specs on every component throughout the machine. Any loose connection can make for voltage spikes, which kills the XMTs' expensive electronic components. And those capacitors have a shelf life, which depends not only on use, but lack of use as well. My XMTs and Thermal Arc 400GMS machines are great, but this CP300 has so much more power, and if the motor caps go, doesn't kill anything important except maybe an input switch. Much more piece of mind. The cheapest I have sourced/repaired a Miller XMT was $100 for the broken machine, and just under $200 for a set of buss capacitors I found on eBay (got.lucky those didn't take out the input rectifier). That's if everything is working, and it seems like every problem component on an inverter takes out the components before it. The inverters normally cost me at least $600 to source and repair, and go for around $1000 minimum when working. These CPs aren't as cheap around me as Ben can find them, but they usually come with feeders for about the same price I can buy a broken XMT. Just my thoughts...

    Jon
    In the past 30 years I have owned several large welders that were designed to run on single phase. Linde VI-200 that I bought for $200, 300 amp CK Systematics, I forget the model Lincoln 350 amp suitcase welder, Millermatic 350 pulsed and the welders I now own an XMT304 with a 22a feeder I bought 10 years ago for $1200 and a Millermatic 190 I bought new about 4 years ago. There isn't any reason to waste time when there are so many units that are ready to weld. And thanks for the info on maintenance on the XMT304. I will be doing this.

  8. #48
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    Sorry to go off topic. I completely understand, but of all the inverters I have repaired (Thermal Arc, XMT 304/350, Dynasty DX, L-TEC, Hobart Porta Tig, POWCONs) and small transformer boxes I have repaired (Millermatic 200 DVI, 140s, Hobart Handlers and Ironmans), the CP-300 was the cheapest, easiest, and most powerful so far. All of mine are on single phase. There are a VI-200 and Hobart Fabricator 300 ready to weld for pretty cheap that would have probably been a better call.
    The cheapest way to get a tech manual for the XMT 304 and 350 is to go to the Red-d-Arc website, and under the Support links in the menu, you can find the manuals for the Extreme 300 (Miller XMT 304) and Extreme 360 (Miller XMT 350), as well as the Lincoln Invertec Pro 350 (the Lincoln 350 suitcase welder). The best way to find a good deal is to Google search the Miller part number for the capacitors (should be 192935). I tried to get an OEM spec, but the common sizes are shorter and thicker for those capacitors. A good source of info is from the user ccawg on the Miller forums. Hope this helps.
    Jon

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    Well I'm with jjohn 100%. I much prefer transformers over inverters.
    jjohn, thank you so much. I was thinking the contactor was unique to this machine based on the picture google turned up via the part number I posted above. Also, I dont recall seeing any info or label on my fan motor but IF you could help me source this motor I'd be thrilled to say the least. I believe my label or info was completely gone or unreadable.
    I will try and see if maybe a local HVAC? or ebay or something has a fan motor matching the specs you listed, and hope the motor face/mount/frame style will also match up and bolt right in as well.
    Crossing my fingers. Thanks so much again jjohn.

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    Paul, my manual has the motor as part number 116190, which looks like it was superceded by the one you listed. There are some of either available anywhere from $116 (eBay, Profax replacement model) to the prices you found. For some reason, more hits comes up on a Google search when I use Miller 116190 than the other part number.

    Jon

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    Paul, I haven't tried to get to mine yet, but when I searched 116190, I came across the Emerson F48DZP-2106, which is 230V, 1550 rpm, 1.5a max, 1/12hp, 3/8" shaft, frame is 42Y. I won't be able to confirm until the weekend, depending on how my real job.goes, but that may get you rolling with the HVAC vendors. A call to Miller Tech support may get you some more information on the exact specs of the motor as well.

    Edit: searching around this morning, all leads ended up with a $200 replacement fan or the Profax PX116190 fan on eBay...

    Jon

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    Quote Originally Posted by converterking View Post
    There isn't any reason to waste time when there are so many units that are ready to weld.
    Sure there is, they're cheap as hell. Did you miss the part where it cost me $23? Came with an s-54 feeder. That's less than a spool of wire. 23 dollars was an auction purchase. Same with the other, nicer one. 70 dollar one came with an E-10(?) feeder. These three phase machines are cheap because they are three phase. Transformer means they'll last a long time. Single phase Miller machines in this area.... probably any area... cost a minimum of $500. actually, I don't think I could get near a Miller 300amp wire feed for less than a grand. I don't need two of them. I also can run a three phase one off my converter. If this works, I'll probably be selling it. If it works better than it has, I'll be converting the other one to keep, so I'm not tethered to the converter. Already looking at picking up a few more, given the auctions are all in the 1-10 dollar range. Those are lincoln and linde welders, however.

    I don't make money with my welder, so it's okay to be a project.

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    Hi jjohn,
    How many 60/5 capacitors are needed for the HK conversion on CP302?
    My best guess is two total caps, but I'm just not sure. Have yet to see a materials list. Thanks.

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    Paul, I don't know if the CP302 transformers are much different than the newer CP300s, but I would have to assume they're close. If that's the case, you would need 4 total 60/5 capacitors, which is working well for me in the CP300. Two capacitors are in parallel per side of the middle transformer coil.

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    Ok thanks jjohn
    I'm still on the fence about this. I hooked up to my RPC for first time last night and I'm getting the dreaded NO WELD OUTPUT warning light.
    FM fan motor runs, and there is power to the 115v outlet, also tried resetting cb1 and 2. No luck. This welder ran great before so I'm wondering if that ghost leg (which measures 185v to grd) is creating an issue.
    My voltages are close from leg-leg
    L1/L3 =240v
    L1/L2 = 225v
    L2/L3 = 217v
    L2 is the generated leg.
    I asked in another thread but no response yet. Anyone ever dealt with this? I'm not experienced enough to test Cr1 relay but I'm trying fellas.

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    Paul, if I understand right, you're running the CP-302 in its factory configuration on your RPC. If that is the case, you should be getting at least some output unless your SCRs are not firing. Did you disconnect any wires to your SCR control board (I don't know where it is on that machine, but it should be the only one in there)? There should be a wire from your remote receptacle to that board. I will see if I can pull a manual. What are the first three digits of you serial number?

    Edit - I just pulled the Op Manual for an early 90s CP-302 (KG serial number). It looks like you PC1 SCR firing board is up high mounted to the lifting frame.You should be able to check continuity from that board to a few links on the circuit relays on your front panel. Have you checked the output thermals for voltage?

    Paul, trying to catch up to you. How are you triggering your machine at the remote connector? Across pins A and B or across I and J? When you trigger, are you getting continuity from pin RC2-1 on the firing board to the rectifier frame half with SCRs on it?

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    John, about to drive somewhere but serial is LA261232. So apparently the NO WELD OUTPUT LIGHT stays on until you pull trigger and strike an arc?
    I got it running. Somewhat.
    It is slightly erratic. One thing I found was the taps at 230v were loose as a goose. Tightened them up and machine welds on 230v. (Off my 20hp RPC, so yes, factory config)
    With the voltages measured across each leg reading at 217/225/241 (and considering I havr a weak ghost leg) do you think I should try the 200/220v taps out for possible better performance?.
    I've only ran a few beads on 1/4 plate, but machine seems to not like anything but 25v and 50-60 on the s52e feeder. (Is this 60ipm?)
    I'm wondering if I need to scotchbrite thr transformers at the brushes to polish them up a bit? Machine was dusty as hell when I got it.
    Thank you so much John. You seem to be the only help I've got right now.
    I'll update later.

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    Also, if it means anything, dc amperage on the machine read just under 100 when running a bead. Can you gleen anything from this?

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    Paul I would recommend sticking with the 230V taps. That issue sounds more like your brushes only have "good" contact in a single spot, so it's definitely worth cleaning the transformer faces, checkking the brushes are free to move, and tightening every power connection from rectifier through output. 100 amps is tied to your wire speed, but indicates you're getting decent connections. What's the working voltage? Are you on the high or low inductance tap? If it's still erratic after cleaning the transformer faces/brushes and all of the rectifier/inductor/output connections, I would make sure to rule out the phases are in the correct order.

    Also, from what I understand of RPCs, leg balance is dependent on load. I don't see that limiting the machine to a stable arc at such a narrow operating point, but it might.

    I am not too familiar with your feeder, but if you're using.035 wire, you're probably running around 160 ipm for 100 amps.

    Does your feeder spin relatively constant and change with the control? Erratic feeder speed could cause issues, but again, given how it works in such a narrow operating point, I don't think that is the issue.

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    Jjohn,
    When you say "make sure my phases are in order" I'm not quite sure what you mean.
    This welder (I thought) should run thrme same regardless of where I have T1/T2/T3 hooked up to, correct?
    I mean, its just 3 hots and a grd, so doesnt matter where I run/hookup each leg? Or does it?
    Finally, it sounds as if you're saying my feeder setting knob (labeled 0-100) is still inches per minute, but you must add 100 to the dial setting.
    I am about to clean the transformer faces and see if that helps and report back.


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