Hardinge chucker speed control is not working on 208v, it did on 240v.

kustomizer · Jun 6, 2020

I just unplugged this machine in California, hauled it to Idaho and plugged it back in. I turned on the spindle and it went the right direction, I thought hot damn it works and went on to something else. Most of my 240v stuff has worked just fine although a couple have needed bigger heaters in the starters. I turned on my chucker yesterday to work on some small project and I turned the 1-2 speed knob from max to about the middle and it went all the way to slow.
All 3 speeds are now slow as they go and it doesn't matter where I turn the knobs, so I thought I would ask here before I started exploring to see if this has an easy known solution.
thanks
mark

Hardplates · Jun 6, 2020

kustomizer said:
I just unplugged this machine in California, hauled it to Idaho and plugged it back in. I turned on the spindle and it went the right direction, I thought hot damn it works and went on to something else. Most of my 240v stuff has worked just fine although a couple have needed bigger heaters in the starters. I turned on my chucker yesterday to work on some small project and I turned the 1-2 speed knob from max to about the middle and it went all the way to slow.
All 3 speeds are now slow as they go and it doesn't matter where I turn the knobs, so I thought I would ask here before I started exploring to see if this has an easy known solution.
thanks
mark

Did you retap the transformer? Also do you have a high leg to ground and is it hooked up in the right location?

Most CNC machines I've seen it doesn't matter where the high leg goes cause they make 120 volt with a transformer that references 2 hot legs but if your manual machine is getting 120 volt from one leg to neutral it will make a big difference. That is if you have a delta config. If it wye it doesn't matter.

kustomizer · Jun 6, 2020

There is no high leg here, there was there, here they all measure 120 to ground and 211 to each other. I didn't think to look for a transformer with adjustable taps, I will check that in a bit when I get my ass out of my easy chair, thanks

kustomizer · Jun 11, 2020

Well, life happened and I didn't get back to this until this morning, I do have a fair size transformer but as luck would have it the electrical drawings are missing and the taps are not labled for voltage.

pat pounden · Jun 11, 2020

that's what meters are for!

kustomizer · Jun 11, 2020

pat pounden said:
that's what meters are for!

I get that, but knowing what voltage is supposed to come out of it would be handy.

Leadfootin · Jun 11, 2020

Post some photos of the transformer and hopefully someone else on the forum will have a solution. It may be as simple as a relay not having enough voltage to close it's contacts.

neilho · Jun 11, 2020

Could power the transformer up and check voltage at the taps for starters.

kustomizer · Jun 11, 2020

This is the transformer

kustomizer · Jun 11, 2020

The rest of the cabinet

Peter from Holland · Jun 12, 2020

One side of the transformer comes from 2 legs and measures 208 volt probably
See what voltage the other side is and compare that with the coilvoltage on any of those contactors
Thats a start
Too far apart and you have a problem Solution is to get a transformer with 208 volts on the primary and the coilvoltage on the secondury

Peter

kustomizer · Jun 12, 2020

I have to take off and get another load of machinery, in the meantime I will try to find an electrical drawing.

thermite · Jun 12, 2020

kustomizer said:
This is the transformer

View attachment 291438

I'm sure it has a twin in the current Acme line, but their nomenclature has changed, so nothing in the way of specs or wiring is turning up in current publications off either the "CH" series nor the "T" series number codes on it.

Appears to be the primaries your foto shows, single-phase, paralleled for 2XX VAC operation, the other option series for 4XX.

The rest you would have to measure.

That said, I would be surprised if it is even involved in the problem.
Too much else would also be wonkey and/or the loss of control range would be a great deal less pronounced than what you reported.

More likely a termination, relay, switch contact - "control" in-general - that is specific to the misbehaving sub-system ONLY ....has suffered from moisture, shock, or vibration somewhere during the journey. Goods are too clean in general to expect corrosion, etc.

Even MORE likely that the fault is not even in this area at all.

Insert usual disclaimer: "been wrong before.." etc.

kustomizer · Jun 14, 2020

There is a lot of shit in that cabinet and I am not all too interested in laerning all I likely need to know. I am thinking for now I may just manually turn the screw to make it as fast as it goes and unhook the motor that changes the speed, then get back to it when I feel more in the mood for a project I have to do on the floor.

thermite · Jun 14, 2020

kustomizer said:
There is a lot of shit in that cabinet and I am not all too interested in laerning all I likely need to know. I am thinking for now I may just manually turn the screw to make it as fast as it goes and unhook the motor that changes the speed, then get back to it when I feel more in the mood for a project I have to do on the floor.

Not familiar with it, but it sounds like a motor-positioned variant of a Reeves vari-drive or similar I last ran around 1962? Hold on and Up/Down speed button, side of the HS?

Bound to be Hardinge folk on PM as ARE very familiar with it.

Meanwhile, you ain't on MY payroll nor morning-report, either one, but if you was I'd prolly cut you a three day pass and kick the pair of yah out of my orderly house for a headspace break.

Before you end up with a medical bill from overwork and associated stress? That s**t don't often give enny warning you'd actually be paying attention to.

Just sayin'

kustomizer · Jun 14, 2020

thermite said:
Not familiar with it, but it sounds like a motor-positioned variant of a Reeves vari-drive or similar I last ran around 1962? Hold on and Up/Down speed button, side of the HS?

Bound to be Hardinge folk on PM as ARE very familiar with it.

Meanwhile, you ain't on MY payroll nor morning-report, either one, but if you was I'd prolly cut you a three day pass and kick the pair of yah out of my orderly house for a headspace break.

Before you end up with a medical bill from overwork and associated stress? That s**t don't often give enny warning you'd actually be paying attention to.

Just sayin'

We have two parts of the same assy we need to get set up, one in a lathe and one in a 4 axis mill, both machines need leveled up, set up and a half a dozen parts run through, that will be our top priority when we get back then we are going to take a couple of days to play and we have friends ( a guy I came up in the trade with since we were mid teens, and his wife, she used to do our shipping and some of the books and run a machine now and again ) from California showing up to check the place out first of July, they will be there a week and fun rather than work is the plan. The two jobs are likely a day each to get them up and running, then I can take a few months to get them all done if need be.

Richard Winn · Jun 14, 2020

be sure and unplug it before you manually turn the screw

might just be stuck

i had one take off on me one time

didnt get caught in it but broke my elbow on the door jerking my

hand back

book says turn it off the stop 5 turns to clear

hitandmiss · Jun 14, 2020

kustomizer said:
View attachment 291448

The rest of the cabinet

Before turning the screw to by hand, unplug the 2 white relays in the lower right corner of the electrical cabinet.
NEVER push the motor starters in by hand to change speed.
There is no mechanical or electrical interlock on them. Hand operation of the up contactor, and when it comes off the overtravel switch, the lower contactor pulls in and frys those tiny contactors.

I posted a thread on troubleshooting the speed controls here: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...347247/?highlight=Hardinge+HC+troubleshooting

Bill

kustomizer · Jun 14, 2020

Richard Winn said:
be sure and unplug it before you manually turn the screw

might just be stuck

i had one take off on me one time

didnt get caught in it but broke my elbow on the door jerking my

hand back

book says turn it off the stop 5 turns to clear

Good advise
Thanks

kustomizer · Jun 14, 2020

hitandmiss said:
Before turning the screw to by hand, unplug the 2 white relays in the lower right corner of the electrical cabinet.
NEVER push the motor starters in by hand to change speed.
There is no mechanical or electrical interlock on them. Hand operation of the up contactor, and when it comes off the overtravel switch, the lower contactor pulls in and frys those tiny contactors.

I posted a thread on troubleshooting the speed controls here: https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...347247/?highlight=Hardinge+HC+troubleshooting

Bill

I’ll check it out
Thanks

Hardinge chucker speed control is not working on 208v, it did on 240v.

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