I bought an Ex-cell-o Mill (XLO) first gen mill today. - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Duplicate post, all kinds of trouble today...

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    Instead of R8 collet set that you probably will never use most of look at R8 to ER collet holders or R8 endmill holders.
    Both of these ler you remove the "collet" without removing the cutting tool from that "collet"
    Here is a cheap ER holder - other sizes as well, you need bigger:
    Nickel coating R8 ER32 Collet Chuck Tool Holder
    ER 40 is bigger if you need more than the ER32's 3/4" capacity. They also have them in sets with collets if you look at next link.
    Here are endmill holders and more, ER sets here also:
    Search results for: 'R8 endmill holder'

    Edit: Thermite beat me to it while I was typing out duplicate posts....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    Edit: Thermite beat me to it.....
    Mostly because I've been beating the same damned drum as to side-locks for ages ... off the back of #9 B&S..

    Which has about double the grip of Are-Ate, but still. My full set of #9 B&S collets have remained in the drawer.

    Side locks get the job. Some of them on a vintage PDQ-Marlin master chuck, but side-locks, even so.

    "Collets" on a mill are .. for... well.... "special cases"?

    Where one has to be extra careful.. but has that extra care "in the plan", IOW.

  5. #44
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    I don't like being a noob. Thanks for your patience with all these basic questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark_b View Post
    I don't like being a noob. Thanks for your patience with all these basic questions.
    Meahh.. EVERYBODY is a "noob" at SOME part of the trade & craft.

    It's a big industry. Most folk do what crosses their bench, year after year, not some OTHER pilgrim's bench.

    Not a lot of flex in the average work environment to just go off an experiment and try stuff.. until we have retired!

    So we ALL have to go to other-brothers to seek out advice about the specialities we don't often see and haven't done much of ... if any at all.

    BFD.

    One hand washes the other, yah? TEDIOUS to try to wash just the one, all by itself.

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    Can anyone recommend dial indicators to get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark_b View Post
    Can anyone recommend dial indicators to get.
    Cheap Chicom ones from a not-all-junk supplier (H&H Ind,CDCO..) at first.

    AFTER you have destroyed several ...and the understanding as to how fragile they can be ... and their safe use and care has become "wired in"?

    THEN .. figure out what TYPE you need for whatever it is you do.. and buy the good stuff:

    Test Indicator Brand Comparison

    Reference Book On Dial And Test Indicators: Original 2015 Edition: Meyer, Rene Urs: 9798537027157: Amazon.com: Books

    He has published a THIRD edition (2020), too.

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  10. #48
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    Dropping back to the DRO query several posts back I have never regretted paying the modest extra cost for three axes rather than two on my Bridgeport.

    Z-axis on the knee makes it so easy to touch off tool on work, set one of the memories to zero. Drop down, move the axes to gain tool clearance then move the Z up past zero to the chosen depth of cut. May take two or three iterations if the cut is deep relative to cutter diameter but the job gets done easily and accurately.

    Similar technique works fine for setting drilled hole depth using the quill stop. I have a compact pull wire readout on the quill giving me more iterations of technique but, with 20/20 hindsight, it doesn't bring anything new to the party compared to quill stops and knee scale. Just more choices of method. The big gain is being able to set the quill stop accurately without shifting the knee. Quicker and lighter work but, frankly, the ruler scale on the quill is good enough for nearly everything.

    Learn to love and exploit your DRO memories. I spent far too many years thinking them occasionally useful fluff and wasted a shit-ton of time. Usual hundred offsets isn't just for brochure appeal. Especially when doing multiple jobs they make it very easy to do "same again, right". For onesy - twosie I'll usually set zero and feed past for the cut. For "lots" I'll go the other step and set zero at finish position. Much less stressful to do your thinking first and set up everything so you end up on zero. More set-up time as you have to fill the memories and arrange work holding so everything goes back in the same place but the job goes much faster so you soon save time overall.

    A good wiggler, like my Huffam (dunno if they can be got in the USA), makes set-up very easy. Especially if you can touch off both sides and use the centre finding function of the DRO. The cheap wiggler and pointer sets with a collet style carrier tend to be a bit stiff and slow to respond but if used in centre finding style by touching off both sides they are objectively good enough for ordinary work. But if someone expects me to use one its going into orbit. Round Mars. My cheap set has the collet nipped up pretty tight and the needle point permanently installed. Just the ticket for aligning over punch marks and scribed lines. Milking it to spin straight without getting punctured is an acquired skill.

    +1 to what Thermite says about side lock holders and having at least some tooling permanently mounted. Time is money and you will soon save back the cost by faster working. At least two minutes a change for pre-set side lock compared to swopping in a collet. Much less likely to drop and damage a sharp tool too.

    Whenever you can leave enough lost motion on the quill so you can lift the tool clear of the job before shifting things. I usually reckon 1/2" to an inch. Cuts down on the cursing when you gouge the job with a sharp tool. Cranking up and down on the knee gets you to the same place but its heavier work and its tempting to skimp on clearance. I've underdone it a time or three when fed up with winding up'n down.

    Clive

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    QY:[Can anyone recommend dial indicators to get]

    I think you cant beat a Starrett Last Word test indicator bought used for around $20.
    Important is how you will mount it.. and trying out your t-slots keys to set a vise or part near close quickly. Common is a small mag holder for an indicator, a small and larger solid right angle square for layout and checking parts.
    A boring head is handy, A tram checking device, a few end mill holders, some hold-downs, and set-on blocks, a decent vise.

    [dial indicators to get.] Name brand used is ok for mill work.

    I think a planer gauge is handy on a mill but expensive, you can make one, or a simple device that you can micrometer and set to .oo1 and then feel it to the part you are making.

    You might run your indicator at the cross in a few places, and long travel, and down your key slot to draw a map to know about how your table checks and with knowing that mounting parts can be quicker to set up. Perhaps you know that you will need .oo15 per inch, or per 3" in this direction to be closer.

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    I assume you are talking about a dial test indicator. In my opinion really any brand name indicator will probably be fine for sweeping in vises and centering on bores in a mill; mitutoyo, starrett, tesa, brown and sharpe, etc. Watch out for counterfeits if buying online.

    I would also recommend a adjustable arm for like this one.
    NOGA NF1022 Holds: 6mm, 8mm, 3/8", dovetail and backlug, 2.02" Top Arm Length, 2.21" Bottom Arm Length Machine Mountable Indicator Holder | 99-001-054 | Travers Tool Co., Inc.
    I always thought they were kind of gimmicky but I finally used one and decided I really liked it. I definitely prefer one with the fine adjust knob where the indicator mounts. I liked it so much I went back and got one mounted on a mag base too.

    I bought a knock off on amazon to try on my home mill, it was a piece of shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clive603 View Post
    Yep thats the beast. The one in the picture has the setting widget plugged in. Not clear if its included in the quoted price. Excellent deal if it is. Memory says £40-£50 for the widget on top of the VFD cost in the UK when I got mine.

    I needed the widget to set the high torque mis speed boost during run up to cope with occasional stalling of a compressor in barn on first start-up in sub zero temperatures. Not something you'd normally ever encounter but that was a perfect storm of hard staring due to bad compressor installation, low temperatures and an iffy supply.

    Clive
    The widget is extra they want $41 for it but I do not think I need it.
    I think I will have the grinder and the mill share the VFD it is just me in the shop I do not need to run both at the same time.
    I will just put a plug on the other side of the VFD unplug the mill use the grinder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark_b View Post
    The widget is extra they want $41 for it but I do not think I need it.
    I think I will have the grinder and the mill share the VFD it is just me in the shop I do not need to run both at the same time.
    I will just put a plug on the other side of the VFD unplug the mill use the grinder.
    That wont work, you want a RPC (rotary phase converter) for that. A vfd needs to be wired DIRECTLY to the motor it runs, so you need to un wire the motor from the rest of the machine and connect it straight to the VFD.Then un wire the control switches and connect them to vfd directly to control it (on/off & speed control) One VFD per machine, so with multiple machines the RPC wins out.
    Way easier to get a RPC.
    Edit: Looks like with Clives next post my post here might not be the most up to date... His Eaton unit may be able to run different machines. I will have to look at that, it would be really great if it is as easy as it sounds.
    Last edited by Rob F.; 07-19-2021 at 02:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark_b View Post
    The widget is extra they want $41 for it but I do not think I need it.
    I think I will have the grinder and the mill share the VFD it is just me in the shop I do not need to run both at the same time.
    I will just put a plug on the other side of the VFD unplug the mill use the grinder.
    That only works "cheap and easy" if:

    - the grinder and the mill have near-as-dammit identical motors and loading in use.

    - your VFD has the multiple-personality NVRAM option to store and recall more than one packet of "personality" settings. As some do have.

    - you network the VFD and load each settings collection from some other storage device or master VFD. As most have - at least as an extra-cost option.

    OTHERWISE?

    You should expect to need to manually alter at least a FEW settings in the VFD for each load.

    RPC is easier.

    So is a Phase-Perfect. But those cost more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenton View Post
    I assume you are talking about a dial test indicator. In my opinion really any brand name indicator will probably be fine for sweeping in vises and centering on bores in a mill; mitutoyo, starrett, tesa, brown and sharpe, etc. Watch out for counterfeits if buying online.

    I would also recommend a adjustable arm for like this one.
    NOGA NF1022 Holds: 6mm, 8mm, 3/8", dovetail and backlug, 2.02" Top Arm Length, 2.21" Bottom Arm Length Machine Mountable Indicator Holder | 99-001-054 | Travers Tool Co., Inc.
    I always thought they were kind of gimmicky but I finally used one and decided I really liked it. I definitely prefer one with the fine adjust knob where the indicator mounts. I liked it so much I went back and got one mounted on a mag base too.

    I bought a knock off on amazon to try on my home mill, it was a piece of shit.
    I will be getting one of these adjustable arms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark_b View Post
    I will be getting one of these adjustable arms.
    Grab whatever is affordable. Expect to add more.

    NONE are "perfect", least of all the HEAVILY over-hyped Noga.

    ALL have a use where some other base won't fit. etc.

    Clamps ,rods, and dovetails only come it two sizes. Too big. Too small.

    Go figure the lovely part about "standards" is there are so freakin' MANY of them that the other guy always uses a different one than YOU have!

    If only used Ladies had seen such light use?

    N'er mind..

    If/as/WHEN you start sniffing the vee-groove on a DI mag base?

    Stand up
    Hook up
    Shuffle to the door
    Bail out.

    You've been in the trade too long!


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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    That only works "cheap and easy" if:

    - the grinder and the mill have near-as-dammit identical motors and loading in use.

    - your VFD has the multiple-personality NVRAM option to store and recall more than one packet of "personality" settings. As some do have.

    - you network the VFD and load each settings collection from some other storage device or master VFD. As most have - at least as an extra-cost option.

    OTHERWISE?

    You should expect to need to manually alter at least a FEW settings in the VFD for each load.

    RPC is easier.

    So is a Phase-Perfect. But those cost more.
    Thats conventional VFD wisdom which is getting very outdated unless you have demanding needs.

    Those Eaton variable speed starter units need no configuration for normal duties beyond selecting one with a power rating high enough for the motor to be driven.

    Just connect up, switch on and away you go. I have downloaded and printed the big manual and its made clear that for ordinary uses no configuration is needed. Which is why the setting widget is extra and the manual in the box says nothing about such things.

    As for drop in and go the installation on my car lift was literally that as it has a disconnector switch and remote control buttons on the front panel with a naked contactor unit on the main board. All I had to do was swop the (red) 3 phase plug for a (blue) single phase one folding back and making safe the unwanted wire and swop the button wires from the contactor on the control board to the VFD box. Hardest part of the job was finding place for the DIN rail so that the button wires would easily reach the mounted VFD box and the screws could be easily got at to make the connections.

    The no fuss nature of the job is why I like those Eaton boxes for "just need to run a motor" applications. Not to mention being proof against temptation for the finger poking folk who can't be trusted not to meddle! Red numbers flickering up and down on a display are worse than red rag to a bull for such people.

    Clive

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark_b View Post
    Did you put a CNC kit on it?
    No, it's a homebrew still running DESKNC on Win98. The steppers are rewired syncros and the drivers are Parker S drives from EBay. Hardest part was finding a scrap screw gear for the Z axis.

    img_20210719_150322.jpgimg_20210719_150352-2.jpgimg_20210719_150420-2.jpg

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  22. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark_b View Post
    This is the one you are recommending. It does look like a nice plug and play converter. You are right all those settings are over kill.
    DE1-127D0NN-N20N - Eaton - AC Variable Frequency Drive (2 HP, 7.0 Amps) - Wistex II, LLC
    I was curious about what Clive was saying about these so I called and spoke to a guy at the link. They are more like a VFD than a phase converter. You really should call them and discuss what you want to do, machine control switches should be wired direct to control the unit. Also may be a lead time issue to get one.
    After talking to the guy I will go back to my earlier suggestion (for multiple machines) of get or make a RPC, all you need is an old 3 phase motor and a control box (to make it easy) from one of the suppliers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kenton View Post
    Attachment 324818

    the linked VFD is single phase in 3 phase out
    Exactly. So it is NOT a "drop in replacement" for a contacter that is 3-phase in and 3-phase out.

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    Beware of YouTubes because some leave out valuable stuff/information.

    Like this girl on a RV door install. "I don't know why that gap is still there."(at 4:42)... -> because the door jam is not square with the door.

    Then later she says "my luck I'm likely to replace the door" (@4:47) Uuha, You just did replace the door.

    RV Door Replacement | RV Window Replacement | RV Renovation Vlog - YouTube

    Some grinding. turning and milling YouTubes are just as bad.


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