I bought an Ex-cell-o Mill (XLO) first gen mill today. - Page 4
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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob F. View Post
    I was curious about what Clive was saying about these so I called and spoke to a guy at the link. They are more like a VFD than a phase converter. You really should call them and discuss what you want to do, machine control switches should be wired direct to control the unit. Also may be a lead time issue to get one.
    After talking to the guy I will go back to my earlier suggestion (for multiple machines) of get or make a RPC, all you need is an old 3 phase motor and a control box (to make it easy) from one of the suppliers.
    I agree with you a RPC would work well. The only reason I am not going that way now it space, noise. But if I keep adding 3 phase equipment I may revisit this idea.

    More info on this product.
    PowerXL DE1 variable frequency drive overview | Eaton

    I have one coming it takes single phase in and puts out three phase. It is pretty plug and play designed more fault tolerant than a standard VFD for where you do not need a lot of adjustment. The mill is variable speed and the grinder does not have many requirements. They are similar HP.
    I will wire a male and female plugs on it kind of like a extension cord with a box in the middle. Then between the motor and the switch I will add a male and female plugs. I will just plug this box in when I want to use that piece of equipment.

    I am a one man shop so this is really not that inconvenient. If I get to point where I need both I will just get another one.
    For what I need it it seems like a good fit.

    Anyway I will report back how well it works in this setup.

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    This pin is 30mm 8 ½” long it has a threaded hole that is 36mm deep it is greaseable not sure hole size for the grease passage is?
    I would guess the same size as was needed to drill for the grease fitting.
    The hole to let the grease out is 100mm deep.
    I would like to make this pin with my mill

    20210720_101822.jpg

    I will probably make them out of 1144 TGP I can get this in 30mm 20' pieces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark_b View Post
    This pin is 30mm 8 ½” long it has a threaded hole that is 36mm deep it is greaseable not sure hole size for the grease passage is?
    I would guess the same size as was needed to drill for the grease fitting.
    The hole to let the grease out is 100mm deep.
    I would like to make this pin with my mill

    20210720_101822.jpg

    I will probably make them out of 1144 TGP I can get this in 30mm 20' pieces.
    If the stock you can "get" is already the right diameter, all you need is a decent saw, decent vise, coupla drills, tap for the Alemite-Zerk fitting... and a hand-cranked "eggbeater" drill... or anything better.

    "Better" starts with an ignorant drill press. And includes your mill. But not-only.

    IOW you'll be using the mill as a drill press and tapper - or tapping "guide".. not as a lathe.

    Even so, with a bit of fiddling, a mill - horizontal most of all - can serve AS a FAR better substitute for a lathe than a lathe can serve as substitute for a mill.


    Either way .. a vise or Vee block good at holding rounds firmly without marring the surface is one of the more important players.

    If you are going to use-up twenty-foot lengths?

    You'll want repeatable stops as a fixture. More than one, actually.

    You'll want to batch-process same op, many pieces, and NOT, repeat NOT, reconfigure the mill and change tools more than once for EACH item, if done to completion, one at a time... and that's an eater of souls..

    And to work awfully hard for small money, even so ...given he with CNC can run those "lights out" so much cheaper your bank account might bleed faster than your eyes do.

    The flange the two pins are shown mounted to?

    That is "mill work".

    But not-only.

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    The flange I can make with My CNC plasma table the smaller pin it just welded.
    I have a very old Dake horizontal bandsaw to get nice straight cuts.

    I want to offer a thumb for subcompact tractors but this pin is the only thing holding me back. The tractor dealer sells these pins but they are $147.97 plus shipping and tax.

    I do not do large part runs. 10-20 parts at a time. We do batch parts now it does same time.
    They would be not sold separately just with my backhoe thumb.

    I have a 6" vice but it does look like I will need Vee blocks. I will start looking for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark_b View Post
    I agree with you a RPC would work well. The only reason I am not going that way now it space, noise. But if I keep adding 3 phase equipment I may revisit this idea.

    More info on this product.
    PowerXL DE1 variable frequency drive overview | Eaton

    I have one coming it takes single phase in and puts out three phase. It is pretty plug and play designed more fault tolerant than a standard VFD for where you do not need a lot of adjustment. The mill is variable speed and the grinder does not have many requirements. They are similar HP.
    I will wire a male and female plugs on it kind of like a extension cord with a box in the middle. Then between the motor and the switch I will add a male and female plugs. I will just plug this box in when I want to use that piece of equipment.

    I am a one man shop so this is really not that inconvenient. If I get to point where I need both I will just get another one.
    For what I need it it seems like a good fit.

    Anyway I will report back how well it works in this setup.
    I am sure this will work fine.
    In the discussion I had with the guys at the earlier link you will also need to put a plug in for each machines control switches, in addition to the motor plug.

    I also am one an shop so I know well about plugging and unplugging equipment, more equipment than plug in spots....

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark_b View Post
    The flange I can make with My CNC plasma table ..
    Yup. One of those "not only" players..




    I have a 6" vice but it does look like I will need Vee blocks. I will start looking for them.
    Sure you don't already have jaws that could do yah? For the drilling & tapping?

    There's no mill hogging anywhere on that pin, so it's more about repeating than uber-grubbing.

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    QT [This pin is 30mm 8 ½” long it has a threaded hole that is 36mm deep it is greaseable not sure hole size for the grease

    The mill can make the fiat part and the mill can make a jig for punching the hole location in it.
    To dial the hols location would take longer and have a tendency for error.

    Rig up a cold saw and you can cut angel and angle to make every oths part and they will go very fast. An abrasive chop would do the samebut Im not sure about the coat of abrasive wheels.

    Yes, you need to find 30mm round stock in a suitable steel and find out if they need heat treat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Yup. One of those "not only" players..





    Sure you don't already have jaws that could do yah? For the drilling & tapping?

    There's no mill hogging anywhere on that pin, so it's more about repeating than uber-grubbing.
    I just bought the Vice and Mill I really have nothing extra. I will have a long tool list to get.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    QT [This pin is 30mm 8 ½” long it has a threaded hole that is 36mm deep it is greaseable not sure hole size for the grease

    The mill can make the fiat part and the mill can make a jig for punching the hole location in it.
    To dial the hols location would take longer and have a tendency for error.

    Rig up a cold saw and you can cut angel and angle to make every oths part and they will go very fast. An abrasive chop would do the samebut Im not sure about the coat of abrasive wheels.

    Yes, you need to find 30mm round stock in a suitable steel and find out if they need heat treat.
    Yes I can get 1144 TGP 30mm I have use this for pins in the past but those pins were fixed and did not require grease fittings.
    Stressproof 1144 Ground & Polished G&P | Key Metals Online Stock Sizes
    It is not cheap but all steel is expensive now.
    We used them in a quick connect we offered for the backhoe.

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    We/you should not be tooling up the mill or the shop but concentrate on tooling up the mill and shop for the product.
    Buy one and file check it. If it files then perhaps 48r or so. if harder you should know what hardness it is. does it bend or break? diagnose how it is put together and make equipment to achieve all. Measure and determine what tolerances may be required. likely you need a quality drill press, drills, and reamers(?)likely the tractor store pays 1/3 of the retail price for the part. Perhaps you could sell on the internet and make decent money(?)You likely need a production process to make money/not running them like one-ups. Need to price materials, hardening, packaging, shipping, your time needed, backup help(?)Decide if you will make the bargain-priced/or the one of better quality for the same or higher price. Patent search and see if you are allowed/can make it just the same. People say/think that you can just make a patented part 1/16 longer and beat the patent but that is not true, you could work for two years and then have a claim put on the value of your house because you spent all the money. Yes, a ligament improvement can sometimes beat a patent.
    likely you can't buy ground and polished round stock and make money on the part.

    Find some use guys and ask some questions.

    QT Therm ["Better" starts with an ignorant drill press. And includes your mill. But not-only.]
    The process is king and a decent drill press might be the better process, along with cutting the flat part to size and angle, cutting the rounds to the needed length, snag a bevel on the grinder or belt sander, jig locate the grease hole locations, jig and punch mark the round's hole locations.

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    The pin in picture I posted above was one of the pins. I have pin on hand to base the new one off of.

    The initial reason I bought the mill was for the tabs on the trenching bucket and Root ripper.
    Two 30mm holes a exact distant apart.

    I have request to make a backhoe thumb and I can easily do it except for that pin. Maybe now I will be able to do it?

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    A few of the things I ordered for the mill today.
    paralle.jpg
    mag.jpg
    edg.jpg
    capture.jpg
    123.jpg

    My VFD comes this week I am trying to not order to much until I can give a good testing with the VFD.
    Hopefully everything will be good but you never know. As soon as it test out good I will order my DRO.

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    R39700 New Dozer Pin 850BFits Fits Case International Harvester Crawler | eBay

    likely a DRO will not hold as close as a bushing plate jig fixture for hole location...yes if making a production run of a pert.

    spotting drill
    Chicago-Latrobe 790 1/2 Solid Carbide General Purpose Bright 120 Point Spotting Drill | B2546849 - GLOBALindustrial.com

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    I want to buy precision steel squares
    The go from $30 to $600
    What kind should I get?

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    What size or sizes are you needing?

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    6 x 4 maybe 8 x 5 I consider a set also.

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    I bought a few used name brand ones near those sizes on epay and they are fine for my infrequent needs. I paid about the same or less than import prices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiganbuck View Post
    R39700 New Dozer Pin 850BFits Fits Case International Harvester Crawler | eBay

    likely a DRO will not hold as close as a bushing plate jig fixture for hole location...yes if making a production run of a pert.

    spotting drill
    Chicago-Latrobe 790 1/2 Solid Carbide General Purpose Bright 120 Point Spotting Drill | B2546849 - GLOBALindustrial.com
    Yes, the above spot drill is expensive and you can find them for a lower price.
    3/4" Diameter 120deg Degree HSSCo8 M42 Cobalt NC/CNC Spot Drill 2481L YG-1 650229424752 | eBay

    A stout spot drill acts like an end mill with a little dwell and so can locate a position very well.
    I like those with a very short flute length so run-out can be checked closer to its end. They also can be decent edge finder with indicating the side to find to find the mean center and then bring to bear on the part to a .010 feeler shim. The mean center is usually 90* turn from the high run-out (good to sharpie mark the high). The shim feel is also a good way to check that a part is straight with a machine axis. Using an indicator for this can be off because if the tram of the mill or the tram of the part (having an indicator ball set on the part side OD (radius) is subject to easy error. If the part top is not dead straight then the side check with an indicator will be off (in error). Yes, indicator checking the likes of a vise fixed jaw can be done with an indicator.

    Rotating a part when accuracy is not critical can be accomplished by having an extra drill of the size set in one hole and rotate just looking over/eyeball at a simple protractor. So a simple protractor (general) might be added to your list. https://www.homedepot.com/p/General-...r-17/100349259 it is not uncommon to eyeball over and past your part to something in the shop like a doorway, or a toolbox side to get +- 1-degree accuracy.

    Table T slots can be handy for holding round parts, much like a long V block.. You can lock a T-Bolt in place and that becomes your zero end stop to locate a part and hold down can be set , and then moved with you knowing the part center line and still retaining your end spot location. Sometimes much handier than vise holding...and the part under side is clear for drilling and tapping if you are careful.

    Yes you need to check them to be sure they are straight enough for your part spec.

    With having a DRO you can leave a precision post on your table, like a 1" od drill bushing on a T bolt and use that for a spot locator, so you know .xxxx is the centerline of a chosen T slot that becomes your most often used place to hold down round pats.

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    With setting a round part in a T slot one can sharpie paint the part and scribe a line on the part.
    This line then allows the part to be returned to about +-.002 accuracy. Best to use a standard size block and scribe off that block. Having a few blocks for this can be handy, perhaps one a 1/4 x 3/4 x 1.5" might be one such block to be used in all three positions depending on the part size....and yes the stop locator sets it in the long way.

    Yes, you use a flat scribe, not a handheld round one.

    And to return you reuse this scribe to look over.

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    I got the mill running last night but the quill was not auto feeding right and overloading the VFD.
    Tonight I oiled it up and got it moving by hand well. Then powder it up again and auto feed is working great now.
    I tested High and low speeds fwd and rev. variable speeds everything seems to work.
    I tested all three Quill speeds fwd and rev all worked.

    I need to look at the one shot oil system it looks like some of the pluming is crushed.
    Not sure the pump is working. But so far so good.


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