Unique3phase Master Book Edition 3
Unique3phase Master Book Edition 3: Amazon.co.uk: Mr Douglas Arndt: Books
Unique3phase Master Book Edition 3: Amazon.co.uk: Mr Douglas Arndt: Books
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Largest Manufacturing Technology Community on the Web
Stay Connected:
I've found this book is it worth buying? any one read it?
- Thread starter pxr5
- Start date
- Replies 35
- Views 8,902
rons
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
- Location
- California, USA
The book will explain rotary converters. and the Scott Connection.
If you want a Scott Connection transformer converter then you can learn how to do.
If you read the reviews they range from 'Brilliant' to 'inadequate'. That reflects people's starting points and expectations.
In my opinion there is a heck of a lot more information on the internet.
If you want to learn about this stuff and find that the information on the internet is not sinking in then buy the book. It is not that expensive.
If you want a Scott Connection transformer converter then you can learn how to do.
If you read the reviews they range from 'Brilliant' to 'inadequate'. That reflects people's starting points and expectations.
In my opinion there is a heck of a lot more information on the internet.
If you want to learn about this stuff and find that the information on the internet is not sinking in then buy the book. It is not that expensive.
Last edited:
dalmatiangirl61
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2011
- Location
- BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
I purchased a copy a few years ago because I wanted to know how to use a transformer, in place of the noisey rpc. I've never tried it, some here say it does not work, if you dig thru posts here you will find some that say it does work and they use one, idk. Don't remember price, cheap enough for some info no one talks about imho.
rons
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
- Location
- California, USA
9100
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2004
- Location
- Webster Groves, MO
Right on, Rons. When somone posts that he wants to make a phase converter, Jerry should put a hold on the thread until the poster supplies a notarized statement that he has read and more or less understands
https://redirect.viglink.com/?forma...pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4f9...e4f666a5c6.pdf
pages 7 through 37, or has had someone explain it.
Consider the keyboard wear it would save us.
Bill
https://redirect.viglink.com/?forma...pdfs.semanticscholar.org/4f9...e4f666a5c6.pdf
pages 7 through 37, or has had someone explain it.
Consider the keyboard wear it would save us.
Bill
DaveKamp
Titanium
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2004
- Location
- LeClaire, Ia
Sigh...
Y'know, I read these, and I'll accept them for what they are... and as much as I hate to be the one to stomp on anyone's daisies, I'm baffled by how a professor would actually grant 'credit' for the content. I wouldn't. They have plenty of math, structured tests with variables and controls, and in the end, they have conclusions, but read the introductions, and they're both totally missing their own points... the plane crashed before leaving the ground.
Why would I say that? Easy. Both Chhabra ('74) and Adul/Rykar/Burungale start by identifying a problem (single phase is costly, heavy, etc), and proposing changing it to some other format using a device to improve the economic viability of the end result.
But for both, the engineering solution is the same- take one power configuration, and convert it to some other form, by adding more of all the stuff they say is bad. Chhabra's was nothing more than a description of a rotary converter's variability under load... NOT rocket science, and in the scheme of things, irrelevant to functional economy... the converter is a bad choice in the first place... and for Adsul/Raykar/Brurungale, well, NOBODY (at least in North America) calls their utility company for two-phase as a modern power source of choice to generate three phase.
I've worked with lots of really smart engineers. Unfortunately, there's a massive amount of guys walking around with graduate degrees earned by developing paper solutions to all the world's non-existent problems... and the only grease-stains on their lab coats, is from a whiteboard marker. The practical engineer's solution satisfies Ockham's Razor... If the premises which they presented at the beginning were actually significant (necessity for three phase for the reliability, cost, etc), then the proper solution is just pull in three phase to begin with.
There's some of us who'd take single-phase into a three-phase transformer, with a little creative wiring, make the 3phase transformer sing in quadrature, for the sole purpose of making a three-phase machine with a VERY low opportunity cost function effectively on single-phase with no moving parts...
But reading those two white papers certainly won't provide fortitude or to an electrical student's confidence. There's much, much easier descriptions to be had elsewhere. The three phase power concept is not forbidden subject matter restricted to an elite... it's as simple as two kids swinging a jumprope.
You're right, Bill... it'd save lots of keyboard wear. It'd be better if one of us could just stand in front of an inkboard for 20 minutes with a room full 'a newbies, and draw some pictures on the wall, right?
rons
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
- Location
- California, USA
You missed the point a little. There are a ton of references in the back of the paper. Much information there but it is old stuff.
For something that was written 46 years ago it still holds some water...
Can you show me something better on the net? I would like to read it. For myself I can study about transformers, capacitors, etc. and put the pieces together on
building a rotary converter. For others that way is not so easy or desirable. Be nice to have one good paper on how this stuff works.
DaveKamp
Titanium
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2004
- Location
- LeClaire, Ia
Getting it 'all on one paper' is probably the biggest hurdle.
There's a pile of basic concepts that a person needs to understand, in order to really get the 'why'... because the concepts occur in a realm that cannot be visibly seen, and best not be physically felt, tasted, heard or smelled...
A prime example, is inductive reactance. You can't 'see' it, and when I'm standing in the front of a classroom teaching railway traction drive concepts, it takes basically an entire day of explaining it, with visual aids, just to illustrate the reality of how frequency and simple inductance result in impedance. For the sake of preventing total melt-down of my students' self-confidence, I will not even MENTION the concepts of distributed capacitance, inductance, eddy currents, or harmonics.
Building a simple rotary converter will fit on one page. Building a successful transformer-based converter with a Scott T, no, and I wouldn't suggest it for anyone unless (like Bill was alluding to) they already had a really good handle on Z, XL, and XC.
The fundamental reasoning is simple: ON a rotary converter, you DO have something visual- a spinning motor shaft- that tells you something is happening. With a transformer, no.
There's a pile of basic concepts that a person needs to understand, in order to really get the 'why'... because the concepts occur in a realm that cannot be visibly seen, and best not be physically felt, tasted, heard or smelled...
A prime example, is inductive reactance. You can't 'see' it, and when I'm standing in the front of a classroom teaching railway traction drive concepts, it takes basically an entire day of explaining it, with visual aids, just to illustrate the reality of how frequency and simple inductance result in impedance. For the sake of preventing total melt-down of my students' self-confidence, I will not even MENTION the concepts of distributed capacitance, inductance, eddy currents, or harmonics.
Building a simple rotary converter will fit on one page. Building a successful transformer-based converter with a Scott T, no, and I wouldn't suggest it for anyone unless (like Bill was alluding to) they already had a really good handle on Z, XL, and XC.
The fundamental reasoning is simple: ON a rotary converter, you DO have something visual- a spinning motor shaft- that tells you something is happening. With a transformer, no.
rons
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
- Location
- California, USA
I usually recommend that a new guy should build his own converter because the commercial ones are basic designs.
A person's lack of electrical education allows a phase converter company to take advantage of the situation. Cheap parts, barely working
design, and little or no protection components are what they offer. A low price is what they shoot for because the buyer doesn't know the
difference anyway. Said in another way, the lack of education influences the market. Another factor that influences the market is that most
people are cheap. Most people are cheap because of the system...
As far as keyboard wear goes I guess I agree with that. I don't try to help save everyone that comes along, just once in a while.
9100
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2004
- Location
- Webster Groves, MO
My purpose was to make the newcomer familiar with the standard systems and save typing
"Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus but your generated voltage will only be correct at a single load and if you use capacitor start, you will need to switch from the starting capacity to the running one."
And so on. Actually, the paper cited is too complicated for that use and it would be better to write up simple descriptions of each system and put them in a sticky, the idea being to give the person some idea of the different ones and save the endless repetitions.
Dave, you would have loved the EE Phud that I made some coils for. They were for a pancake generator for a vertical shaft windmill. They would be deployed in a circle with a disk holding permanent magnets rotating above and the magnetic path on the underside would be a circular saw blade. I am not making this up! I could have gotten some consulting money but after several seconds of intense contemplation, decided I wanted nothing to do with the project. I did make the coils, to his specs, careful to avoid any intellectual input.
I'm convinced that there is an ability to visualize things like electronic circuits that is inborn, like perfect pitch. Those who have it regard it as a normal function and can't understand why others cannot see what is obvious to them and those who do not have no idea what it is, like trying to explain color to a blind person.
A coworker of the man who was the principle designer of the Stealth Bomber once said "He could see the radar waves flowing over it." I'm sure he could.
Bill
"Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus but your generated voltage will only be correct at a single load and if you use capacitor start, you will need to switch from the starting capacity to the running one."
And so on. Actually, the paper cited is too complicated for that use and it would be better to write up simple descriptions of each system and put them in a sticky, the idea being to give the person some idea of the different ones and save the endless repetitions.
Dave, you would have loved the EE Phud that I made some coils for. They were for a pancake generator for a vertical shaft windmill. They would be deployed in a circle with a disk holding permanent magnets rotating above and the magnetic path on the underside would be a circular saw blade. I am not making this up! I could have gotten some consulting money but after several seconds of intense contemplation, decided I wanted nothing to do with the project. I did make the coils, to his specs, careful to avoid any intellectual input.
I'm convinced that there is an ability to visualize things like electronic circuits that is inborn, like perfect pitch. Those who have it regard it as a normal function and can't understand why others cannot see what is obvious to them and those who do not have no idea what it is, like trying to explain color to a blind person.
A coworker of the man who was the principle designer of the Stealth Bomber once said "He could see the radar waves flowing over it." I'm sure he could.
Bill
Jim Kennedy
Aluminum
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2008
- Location
- Marulan N.S.W. Australia
Hi pxr5. I have not read the Unique 3phase Master Book Edition 3 but I have read two of his previous books, December 2007 and June 2009. The 2009 book had much more and better information, about 100 pg. I have said in older posts I think this book is very good for somebody that needs some help to understand. I don't think there is anything very technical in it. I don't think there is any thing even close on the internet.
Now, I have not read, what is for sale on Amazon but I would be very surprised if it was to promote a "Scott Tee" connected transformer. When I bought this E book it came with either 2 or 3 DVD's.
Now, what got my intertest in the purchase, was he claimed he could show you how to change an old 3 phase motor to become a transformer, becsuse he said some people in the U.S could not find a transformer.
In Australia used transformers, if you can find them, are very expensive (we don't need transformers we just use 240v or 415v). So NO real used transformer market. So I bought his book and DVD. I had a burnt out 50HP motor and many rolls of redundant wire, and I wound this to his instructions as an auto transformer.
Firstly the primary for 240v input then kept winding till 415v (motor voltage) then kept winding to 600v.
So with a 5HP 415v grinder connected to the single phase 415v and connecting the 600v autotransformer tap connected to a suitably valved run capacitor and then connected the manufactured leg on the grinder motor.
Now, connecting a suitable Start capacitor with a voltage sensing relay. So when this converter was energised it just come straight up to speed. There is no mystery to it "it just works". Now, Ron's has posted a paper which goes into the Autotransformer Single Capacitor converter at length.
I have said in the past that the rotary converter is a better all round type, but this Autotransformer does have it's place.
In my opinion, Compressors, water pumps. If I wanted to run a lathe I would put some switches to switch in or out some motor capacitors. Unique 3phase also discusses Static and rotary converters.
I don't think you will find anywhere on the World Wide Web where you can turn an old motor into a static transformer. Also, the transformer I built from this 50HP motor I still use today to power my main 415v rotary converter, also my Air Compressor runs from this method and my house water pump.
I recommend this book, although I have not read this latter edition. He does explain very well.
Just on a side note, I would not recommend to anybody in Australia to make a transformer from a motor because it is a lot of work and you can just pick up an old electric welder for next to nothing, either use the windings as is or remove and rewind very easy. I think this book would be the best for the new guy.
And finally Digger Doug.
Ell the Ice man is coming down the road.
please explain to a down under Aussie, cause I've got NO idea.
Jim
Now, I have not read, what is for sale on Amazon but I would be very surprised if it was to promote a "Scott Tee" connected transformer. When I bought this E book it came with either 2 or 3 DVD's.
Now, what got my intertest in the purchase, was he claimed he could show you how to change an old 3 phase motor to become a transformer, becsuse he said some people in the U.S could not find a transformer.
In Australia used transformers, if you can find them, are very expensive (we don't need transformers we just use 240v or 415v). So NO real used transformer market. So I bought his book and DVD. I had a burnt out 50HP motor and many rolls of redundant wire, and I wound this to his instructions as an auto transformer.
Firstly the primary for 240v input then kept winding till 415v (motor voltage) then kept winding to 600v.
So with a 5HP 415v grinder connected to the single phase 415v and connecting the 600v autotransformer tap connected to a suitably valved run capacitor and then connected the manufactured leg on the grinder motor.
Now, connecting a suitable Start capacitor with a voltage sensing relay. So when this converter was energised it just come straight up to speed. There is no mystery to it "it just works". Now, Ron's has posted a paper which goes into the Autotransformer Single Capacitor converter at length.
I have said in the past that the rotary converter is a better all round type, but this Autotransformer does have it's place.
In my opinion, Compressors, water pumps. If I wanted to run a lathe I would put some switches to switch in or out some motor capacitors. Unique 3phase also discusses Static and rotary converters.
I don't think you will find anywhere on the World Wide Web where you can turn an old motor into a static transformer. Also, the transformer I built from this 50HP motor I still use today to power my main 415v rotary converter, also my Air Compressor runs from this method and my house water pump.
I recommend this book, although I have not read this latter edition. He does explain very well.
Just on a side note, I would not recommend to anybody in Australia to make a transformer from a motor because it is a lot of work and you can just pick up an old electric welder for next to nothing, either use the windings as is or remove and rewind very easy. I think this book would be the best for the new guy.
And finally Digger Doug.
Ell the Ice man is coming down the road.
please explain to a down under Aussie, cause I've got NO idea.
Jim
It's an way to remember:
"E" (that is voltage) leads "I" (that is current), with an "L" (that is an inductor).
"I" leads "E" with a "C" capacitor.
"Eli the Ice man"
9100
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2004
- Location
- Webster Groves, MO
Rewinding a motor that large isn't difficult, plenty of room. You wind the coils on a rectangular form and slip them into the slots. Presumably you remove the armature bars and use the armature for the completion of the magnetic circuit. Variable transformers are made in motor frames. he armature is wound as well as the field and rotated to vary coupling. I have one on a 100 KV high voltage testing transformer.
I had a variant of the autotransformer system that would produce a third phase as close to the other two as I could see with an oscilloscope, but it had to be adjusted for every load change. One with a variable transformer described above driven by a phase angle detector servo would be interesting.
Bill
I had a variant of the autotransformer system that would produce a third phase as close to the other two as I could see with an oscilloscope, but it had to be adjusted for every load change. One with a variable transformer described above driven by a phase angle detector servo would be interesting.
Bill
rons
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2009
- Location
- California, USA
The link to Amazon site shows this other book. It costs less but perhaps it is better suited for the phase converter builder.
Three-phase Conversion (Workshop Practice): Amazon.co.uk: Graham R. Astbury: 9781854862624: Books
Three-phase Conversion (Workshop Practice): Amazon.co.uk: Graham R. Astbury: 9781854862624: Books
dalmatiangirl61
Diamond
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2011
- Location
- BFE Nevada/San Marcos Tx
Pretty sure the copy I have is 3rd edition, I do not recall anything in it about rewinding a motor as a transformer. It is not a very technical book, but for those of us that struggle with electrical concepts, it can help. Heck I had to read DKamps 3ph to 1ph welder conversion instructions at least 100 times to understand what he was doing, and feel confident enough to butcher a machine to see if it worked, so far so good, thanks Dave!
Jim Kennedy
Aluminum
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2008
- Location
- Marulan N.S.W. Australia
Hi digger,
Thank you, I would not of figured that one out but as a learning aid it makes sense.
Hi Bill,
Here is a link to a previous post of mine. I only used the silicon steel laminating stack to put my windings around. It was a lot of work and time which I have plenty of, and it has worked for me for over 10 years without fault. I fabricated a base frame for it and then mounted it into a rotator for convenience of the winding. I had a quantity of that yellow building wire 2.5mm squared which is no longer used in Australian installations and grouped 3 together in parallel to increase capacity. I get a lot of pleasure out of using used or redundant materials.
Australian Home made autotransformer RPC
Hi rons.
I have had the Graham Astbury 3 Phase Conversion Workshop Practice Series 47 book for about 5 or 6 years.
Some of my comments on this book. A very well put together book.
Not much money to buy.
It is written in the UK so a lot is 415v.
The writer like to prove all the values by calculation.
But I think your better to work with ball park values then adjust values up or down when you apply your load. (remembering this is do it yourself projects, not commercial ventures.)A simple example of this might be a Six Speed Bench Drill, there is one load at speed 1 speed, 2 has it's own load and speed 3 has another load and we have 3 more different loads and we haven't even stated to drill the hole.
So, we have to settle on compromise. The writer shows how to modify a transformer to get 415v with good instruction but he is only talking about motors under 2 or 3 kW, where Unique 3 phase could easily apply to 50HP motors.
All in all a good book for the money, you would not regret it, but for the newcomer I think the Unique 3 phase book (I don't know it you still get the DVDs maybe some one could let me know) is the easier to follow, has for more information and if read by US people it will be mostly in their voltages etc. Another example in the USA people building RPC's seem to buy a commercial voltage sensing relay made to just fit and run, but the UK book goes into calculations to match a resistor to a relay.
Where I just get a small relay connect it's coil to the manufactured leg terminal on the idler motor, say start of with about 10,000 ohm resistor in series with coil when you start this idler either the Normally Closed contacts on this relay won't open so you need a bit more resistance. Or if the motor did not come up to speed you need less resistance.
Hi Dalmation.
I think my link to my earlier post will clear up what I have done. You said in post No.3 you wanted to know if a transformer could replace a noisy RPC. Well I have already said I think a RPC is the best all rounder but if I was running an Air Compressor I would not run it through a RPC. I would definately run it with a higher voltage auto transformer method. Now I'm going to through a new concept out there.
We read often of people not being able to start some of their motors form an RPC, the problem being the manufactured leg on the idler hasn't got the guts. So by having the autotransformer which might be a standard off the shelf 240v in 110v out transformer connected as an auto transformer because we only have to get a 360v boost for a 4 pole motor. So we start our load motor and when up to speed we switch from autotransformer back to RPC idler.
While I am sitting here writing this it take my mind of these horrific bush fires we are having in Australia. We have no foreseeable weather changes in sight and that will be the only way we will get on top of these fires, more than 100 of them.
Jim
Thank you, I would not of figured that one out but as a learning aid it makes sense.
Hi Bill,
Here is a link to a previous post of mine. I only used the silicon steel laminating stack to put my windings around. It was a lot of work and time which I have plenty of, and it has worked for me for over 10 years without fault. I fabricated a base frame for it and then mounted it into a rotator for convenience of the winding. I had a quantity of that yellow building wire 2.5mm squared which is no longer used in Australian installations and grouped 3 together in parallel to increase capacity. I get a lot of pleasure out of using used or redundant materials.
Australian Home made autotransformer RPC
Hi rons.
I have had the Graham Astbury 3 Phase Conversion Workshop Practice Series 47 book for about 5 or 6 years.
Some of my comments on this book. A very well put together book.
Not much money to buy.
It is written in the UK so a lot is 415v.
The writer like to prove all the values by calculation.
But I think your better to work with ball park values then adjust values up or down when you apply your load. (remembering this is do it yourself projects, not commercial ventures.)A simple example of this might be a Six Speed Bench Drill, there is one load at speed 1 speed, 2 has it's own load and speed 3 has another load and we have 3 more different loads and we haven't even stated to drill the hole.
So, we have to settle on compromise. The writer shows how to modify a transformer to get 415v with good instruction but he is only talking about motors under 2 or 3 kW, where Unique 3 phase could easily apply to 50HP motors.
All in all a good book for the money, you would not regret it, but for the newcomer I think the Unique 3 phase book (I don't know it you still get the DVDs maybe some one could let me know) is the easier to follow, has for more information and if read by US people it will be mostly in their voltages etc. Another example in the USA people building RPC's seem to buy a commercial voltage sensing relay made to just fit and run, but the UK book goes into calculations to match a resistor to a relay.
Where I just get a small relay connect it's coil to the manufactured leg terminal on the idler motor, say start of with about 10,000 ohm resistor in series with coil when you start this idler either the Normally Closed contacts on this relay won't open so you need a bit more resistance. Or if the motor did not come up to speed you need less resistance.
Hi Dalmation.
I think my link to my earlier post will clear up what I have done. You said in post No.3 you wanted to know if a transformer could replace a noisy RPC. Well I have already said I think a RPC is the best all rounder but if I was running an Air Compressor I would not run it through a RPC. I would definately run it with a higher voltage auto transformer method. Now I'm going to through a new concept out there.
We read often of people not being able to start some of their motors form an RPC, the problem being the manufactured leg on the idler hasn't got the guts. So by having the autotransformer which might be a standard off the shelf 240v in 110v out transformer connected as an auto transformer because we only have to get a 360v boost for a 4 pole motor. So we start our load motor and when up to speed we switch from autotransformer back to RPC idler.
While I am sitting here writing this it take my mind of these horrific bush fires we are having in Australia. We have no foreseeable weather changes in sight and that will be the only way we will get on top of these fires, more than 100 of them.
Jim
DaveKamp
Titanium
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2004
- Location
- LeClaire, Ia
Brush fires...
Sorry to hear about the brush fires, Jim... fortunately, you're not in California... there's still a few Aussies that know how to put out fires, I'm certain... In California, they complain about the fires, and being out of water, so the politicians raise taxes... and then it rains, they complain about the rain, and the mudslides, and forget about the water... and the politicians raise taxes. I suppose that if your bush fires continue, your government will either outlaw bushes, or require them to be equipped with fire extinguishers... but I digress, my apologies.
Bill- It was Hal Hibbard, president of Lockheed, who was quoted saying 'That damned swede" <Skunk Works director Kelly Johnson> "could SEE air'...
The F-117A was developed under name "Have Blue" under Kelly Johnson, and I would NOT be the least bit surprised if the same phrase was amended for the team members who were laying out the Ufimtsev theories into a workable format.
I think we pretty much all have a good handle on the concepts of inductive and capacitive reactance here... but I think we all realize that there's lots of guys that wanna be able to run three-phase stuff from a single phase source.
The disconnect, however, is wether something based on an entirely invisible realm can be successfully done WITHOUT having the ability, or the need to understand WHY it works.
Which brings me to what my core point.
I had more than one engineering professor (like Bill noted) in the category of one who obviously never actually ever BUILT anything... they went through school, then grad, then to tenure, likely without having accomplished anything more worthwhile than raking the leaves in their yard. If it ever came out, I'd be pleasantly surprised to find that my Engineering Problems and Solutions professor (who had a PhD in Crystalline Structures) would have succeeded in removing a fouled spark plug from a 3hp Briggs... but he was the type who couldn't find himself a way out of a bad conversation.
Anyway, this joker said something once, that I took EXTREME exception to:
"You can't successfully apply physics if you can't do the MATH".
The reason why I took exception, was in my proof:
Give a four-year-old boy a tennis ball, tell him to throw it at your head.
He will wind up, and knock you right in the noggin, and laugh... pick up the ball, and do it again, over and over.
He knows NOTHING of the mathematics of gravitational accelleration, nothing of wind resistance, or spin drift, doesn't know your exact distance, elevation difference, or departure vector, ancillary spin, or environmental factors, yet he laughs watching your eyes roll after getting biffed.
Turn the knob one more step backwards: A sparrow (regardless of wether African, or European)has no concept of NACA shapes, or the difference between lift and drag airfoil designs, nothing of gravity, air density, pressure, or even it's own power output... it doesn't have the slightest idea of it's own simple problem of weight ratios, it can still fly just fine with all that lack-of-physics-math. (just don't tie on a coconut).
The Fitch Williams rotary converter is a gadget that doesn't need to be understood, in order for someone to build one that is actually successful.
Having a document that goes into incredible depth of the science, does NOT put a common workshop guy in a position to throw a switch, spin up a motor, throw another switch, and turn on his mill.
It also serves no substantial purpose to saturate a man's grey matter with the intricacies of balancing capacitor calculations, because in REAL LIFE, unless you're running a constant-load machine, under non-changing circumstances, it's a moving target... and worst of all... the imbalance is entirely UN-critical to the end result.
As Ron put it... the guys that sell the 'kits'... some of them are doing a disservice by preying upon guys who simply don't know they're getting ripped-off. And I'll acknowledge and thank Kris for her kind words about my welder conversion writeups... they're not exactly in same realm, but I put a theory introduction in there that I figured mebbie 3% would get 'right off the bat', and 30% would get after looking at the drawings of current flow, and mebbie 50% would just follow the step-by-step and get success, while the remainder would either decide not to, or get partway in and run into some problem they either could solve, or would just give up...
and in doing so, resign myself to the fact that I helped out 83% to get a running machine, and SOME of them would go on to try, and prove, and publish results on similar machines.
Sometimes teaching and learning are easy. Most times, it's not so much, but it's worth it regardless.
Sorry to hear about the brush fires, Jim... fortunately, you're not in California... there's still a few Aussies that know how to put out fires, I'm certain... In California, they complain about the fires, and being out of water, so the politicians raise taxes... and then it rains, they complain about the rain, and the mudslides, and forget about the water... and the politicians raise taxes. I suppose that if your bush fires continue, your government will either outlaw bushes, or require them to be equipped with fire extinguishers... but I digress, my apologies.
Bill- It was Hal Hibbard, president of Lockheed, who was quoted saying 'That damned swede" <Skunk Works director Kelly Johnson> "could SEE air'...
The F-117A was developed under name "Have Blue" under Kelly Johnson, and I would NOT be the least bit surprised if the same phrase was amended for the team members who were laying out the Ufimtsev theories into a workable format.
I think we pretty much all have a good handle on the concepts of inductive and capacitive reactance here... but I think we all realize that there's lots of guys that wanna be able to run three-phase stuff from a single phase source.
The disconnect, however, is wether something based on an entirely invisible realm can be successfully done WITHOUT having the ability, or the need to understand WHY it works.
Which brings me to what my core point.
I had more than one engineering professor (like Bill noted) in the category of one who obviously never actually ever BUILT anything... they went through school, then grad, then to tenure, likely without having accomplished anything more worthwhile than raking the leaves in their yard. If it ever came out, I'd be pleasantly surprised to find that my Engineering Problems and Solutions professor (who had a PhD in Crystalline Structures) would have succeeded in removing a fouled spark plug from a 3hp Briggs... but he was the type who couldn't find himself a way out of a bad conversation.
Anyway, this joker said something once, that I took EXTREME exception to:
"You can't successfully apply physics if you can't do the MATH".
The reason why I took exception, was in my proof:
Give a four-year-old boy a tennis ball, tell him to throw it at your head.
He will wind up, and knock you right in the noggin, and laugh... pick up the ball, and do it again, over and over.
He knows NOTHING of the mathematics of gravitational accelleration, nothing of wind resistance, or spin drift, doesn't know your exact distance, elevation difference, or departure vector, ancillary spin, or environmental factors, yet he laughs watching your eyes roll after getting biffed.
Turn the knob one more step backwards: A sparrow (regardless of wether African, or European)has no concept of NACA shapes, or the difference between lift and drag airfoil designs, nothing of gravity, air density, pressure, or even it's own power output... it doesn't have the slightest idea of it's own simple problem of weight ratios, it can still fly just fine with all that lack-of-physics-math. (just don't tie on a coconut).
The Fitch Williams rotary converter is a gadget that doesn't need to be understood, in order for someone to build one that is actually successful.
Having a document that goes into incredible depth of the science, does NOT put a common workshop guy in a position to throw a switch, spin up a motor, throw another switch, and turn on his mill.
It also serves no substantial purpose to saturate a man's grey matter with the intricacies of balancing capacitor calculations, because in REAL LIFE, unless you're running a constant-load machine, under non-changing circumstances, it's a moving target... and worst of all... the imbalance is entirely UN-critical to the end result.
As Ron put it... the guys that sell the 'kits'... some of them are doing a disservice by preying upon guys who simply don't know they're getting ripped-off. And I'll acknowledge and thank Kris for her kind words about my welder conversion writeups... they're not exactly in same realm, but I put a theory introduction in there that I figured mebbie 3% would get 'right off the bat', and 30% would get after looking at the drawings of current flow, and mebbie 50% would just follow the step-by-step and get success, while the remainder would either decide not to, or get partway in and run into some problem they either could solve, or would just give up...
and in doing so, resign myself to the fact that I helped out 83% to get a running machine, and SOME of them would go on to try, and prove, and publish results on similar machines.
Sometimes teaching and learning are easy. Most times, it's not so much, but it's worth it regardless.
TDegenhart
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 26, 2011
- Location
- Geneva Illinois USA
I,on the other hand, feel that for someone to be successful in whatever pursuit, be it electrical, machining or whatever, they should understand the principals involved. Mathematics? Not necessarily, but knowing why you add or subtract capacitors or whatever, is important. So you build a Fitch Williams rotary converter and it doesn't work quite the way it should because you don't have quite the same components. Then what you do? Just throw up your hands and walk away? Same with machining which have a lot more variables than a convertor. Would you use a AlTiN coating on a insert cutting aluminum at moderate speeds dry? Probably will cause problems. Same issue. Know the fundamentals you can work out a solution.
To the original question regarding a book describing the Scott connection, that's great if you want to go from three phase to two phase. Not so useful going from single phase to three phase.
Tom
9100
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2004
- Location
- Webster Groves, MO
Some people live their lives with a series of platitudes, in what a computer scientist calls a lookup table. You look up A and it says to do B. No logic involved. Would you rather look at a limestone cliff and see trillions of tiny sea creatures living their brief lives forming calcium carbonate, then dying and falling on the last generation's bones, eventually being pushed up by tectonic forces and partly being cut away by a river over a few millenia, or would you rather see a pile of rocks?
You can invent without much math, as someone said, twiddling decade boxes and burning incense to Terman, but the calculations are a big help in guessing the outcome.
Of course, in the end even Richard Feynman had to resort to the lookup table. Subatomic particles did this or that and he didn't know the reason. He pushed the boundary back, but it was still there.
Bill
You can invent without much math, as someone said, twiddling decade boxes and burning incense to Terman, but the calculations are a big help in guessing the outcome.
Of course, in the end even Richard Feynman had to resort to the lookup table. Subatomic particles did this or that and he didn't know the reason. He pushed the boundary back, but it was still there.
Bill
