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    Default Lincoln CV-400 on single phase...

    This is my first post here. I have been searching around for a few weeks on the web to find the answer to this question, and I have not found the answer.

    I have an opportunity to get a Lincoln CV-400 that is currently on 3-phase 480. I realize that running it on single phase will not allow it to weld at full amps, and I'm fine with that. I just want a welder that is capable of welding something a little bit thicker than my current welder is capable of welding.

    There are a lot resources out there for converting the Miller CP-200's, and unfortunately, I had an opportunity to buy one of those a while back, and I didn't realize at the time that it was convertible.

    Has anyone successfully converted one of these Lincolns, and if so, care to share how to go about it? I do NOT have a good schematic of the welder currently, other than what is online, and they are not the greatest images in the manual. I also have NOT been able to get into the cabinet of one of these to see what it looks like in there, but as near as I can tell from the schematic, it may be possible. I'm also comfortable working with electricty , but I have never worked with any 3-phase, so I don't totally understand how all of that works, or what would need to be done in order to make it work without some help...

    Thanks in advance!

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    build a 10 horse rotory phase convertor

    or

    wait till dave kamp shows up
    he will

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    Quote Originally Posted by wippin' boy View Post
    build a 10 horse rotory phase convertor
    ...
    Is 10HP big enough for this welder? From what I had calculated, and from charts that I've seen online, a 40HP RPC would be required to run this welder at FULL power. (56A @ 230V) I realize that would be ideal, but that isn't practical. The RPC would cost a TON more than the welder, and while I would love to have 3-phase in my shop, I don't know that I want it that bad. Even if the Hass-Kamp conversion yields about half the full output, and I wanted to go there, I would still need a 20HP RPC. Even at that, I don't have a 20HP motor laying around, so that's going to set me back a fair amount as well.

    At the end of the day, I don't even have a 10HP motor, but if I did, I would definitely consider trying to build an RPC.

    Quote Originally Posted by wippin' boy View Post
    ... wait till dave kamp shows up
    ...
    Dave has stated in another thread that he thought that there was information on this site about someone who had done one successfully, but I haven't been able to find that information here, so I'm patiently waiting.

    CADman_KS

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    I would think that it will be possible to convert this welder. You will probably have to get a clear picture of the exact wiring diagram. This should be inside the cover of the machine. With that I am sure that Dave will be able to come up with a solution. I looked over the ones on the Lincoln website and they are indeed a little confusing. From what I can see though,it should connect similarly to the CP 200, as it seems to be a wye connected transformer. I too am curious as I would like to try one of these if I ever get the chance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjb836 View Post
    I would think that it will be possible to convert this welder. You will probably have to get a clear picture of the exact wiring diagram. This should be inside the cover of the machine. With that I am sure that Dave will be able to come up with a solution. I looked over the ones on the Lincoln website and they are indeed a little confusing. From what I can see though,it should connect similarly to the CP 200, as it seems to be a wye connected transformer. I too am curious as I would like to try one of these if I ever get the chance.
    I probably won't be able to get a picture of the inside cover until after I've bought the machine. These are currently in production, and I can't get the cover off without taking the machine out of the stand that it's on...

    CADman_KS

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    most of the conversions I've seen talked about are the old crank handle transformer style
    they have a mechanical system of moving brushes down a coil/something or another to adjust output
    the cv400 is not that type of machine, it has a little knob (pot maybe) that tells something else (a board, maybe some scrs' who knows) to rev up or down said power
    based on that I would buy this machine only if the price was ridiculously low (they go for 1500 to 2 grand used ). unless of coarse you have money to burn on a science project.
    wait for a little cp300 miller
    or something like this
    http://quadcities.craigslist.org/tls/4795338075.html
    there out there you just have to find them (see the crank?, they all have it)
    or buy a Tweeco 211i, they are killer

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    I checked Lincoln's website, and picked one (of several) CV-400 welders, and the one I picked (which may be similar, or rather different) didn't look like it was out-of-reach for doing a conversion.

    There's only one way to find out for sure... that is, to find out enough information about it (model, serial, and CODE) then find the appropriate manual with diagram (from Lincoln's website), and then look at the diagram, come up with a plan, estimate capacitance, and then give it a try, trim for max smoke, and see what happens.

    As far as results, when you do this conversion, it's not unusual to get full output. Not having done it on the CV-400, I couldn't tell for certain, but as my Dad always says: If you don't ask, you won't get an answer, and if you don't try, you won't know...

    So can you get more info?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wippin' boy View Post
    most of the conversions I've seen talked about are the old crank handle transformer style
    they have a mechanical system of moving brushes down a coil/something or another to adjust output
    the cv400 is not that type of machine, it has a little knob (pot maybe) that tells something else (a board, maybe some scrs' who knows) to rev up or down said power
    based on that I would buy this machine only if the price was ridiculously low (they go for 1500 to 2 grand used ). unless of coarse you have money to burn on a science project.
    ....
    You are right on your description of the machine, as it does NOT have a crank. It's in about the 1987 vintage, so it's not quite as old as the Miller's with the crank. We HAD some Miller CP-200's too, that we sold for not much money, but I didn't realize at that time that these were convertable. One of them that we sold was a very nice machine. I had actually welded with it quite a bit. You said that ridiculously low is the only way to buy this machine. Is $300 low enough? Even at that money, I could build an RPC that could handle this machine AND still be ahead, but I don't want to build an RPC unless it's absolutely necessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveKamp View Post
    I checked Lincoln's website, and picked one (of several) CV-400 welders, and the one I picked (which may be similar, or rather different) didn't look like it was out-of-reach for doing a conversion.

    There's only one way to find out for sure... that is, to find out enough information about it (model, serial, and CODE) then find the appropriate manual with diagram (from Lincoln's website), and then look at the diagram, come up with a plan, estimate capacitance, and then give it a try, trim for max smoke, and see what happens.

    As far as results, when you do this conversion, it's not unusual to get full output. Not having done it on the CV-400, I couldn't tell for certain, but as my Dad always says: If you don't ask, you won't get an answer, and if you don't try, you won't know...

    So can you get more info?
    Dave, thanks for the follow-up! Here is all of the information that I have on the machines at this time. There are actually two of them, one is older than the other.

    Machine 1: (older one)
    Model DC-400
    Code No: 8748-UM
    Serial No: AC-645695

    Machine 2: (newer one)
    Model CV-400
    Code No: 9405M
    Serial AC-689777

    I still have not had a chance to get the cover off, and I don't think that's going to happen until we actually take them out of service, and then I could at that point.

    You mentioned going onto Lincoln's site. There site is a little gives you the manuals, but the manuals say that the electrical schematics may not be the same as the book, and that you need to look at the machine. That's the part that's a little bit wonky. Also, the schematics that I've found online are not the greatest. They are really hard to read. They were poorly copied...

    CADman_KS

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    $300 is cheap enough to buy the machine, burn it up tryin' to convert it and still get your money back selling the wire feeder on e-bay (assuming it comes with the standard LN-7 wire feeder)
    You should probly buy them both, get the new one looking show room clean sell it for $750 and have a free welder to do as you please. If your willing to palletize for freight shipping should be quite doable

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    Quote Originally Posted by wippin' boy View Post
    $300 is cheap enough to buy the machine, burn it up tryin' to convert it and still get your money back selling the wire feeder on e-bay (assuming it comes with the standard LN-7 wire feeder)
    You should probly buy them both, get the new one looking show room clean sell it for $750 and have a free welder to do as you please. If your willing to palletize for freight shipping should be quite doable
    I actually thought about buying them both, and getting a "free" welder as well.

    I know that the CV-400 has an LN-9 on it. I believe that the DC-400 does as well, but I have not looked at that one specifically. The one thing that they don't have however, is the covers for the LN's. We've lost those along the way somewhere...

    CADman_KS

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    Quote Originally Posted by CADman_KS View Post
    ...

    I know that the CV-400 has an LN-9 on it. ...
    That reminds me that I need to look those code and serial numbers up on the LN's. I hope those aren't on the cover only. That could be a problem...

    CADman_KS

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveKamp View Post
    I checked Lincoln's website, and picked one (of several) CV-400 welders, and the one I picked (which may be similar, or rather different) didn't look like it was out-of-reach for doing a conversion.

    There's only one way to find out for sure... that is, to find out enough information about it (model, serial, and CODE) then find the appropriate manual with diagram (from Lincoln's website), and then look at the diagram, come up with a plan, estimate capacitance, and then give it a try, trim for max smoke, and see what happens.

    As far as results, when you do this conversion, it's not unusual to get full output. Not having done it on the CV-400, I couldn't tell for certain, but as my Dad always says: If you don't ask, you won't get an answer, and if you don't try, you won't know...

    So can you get more info?
    Dave, you may have seen these already, but I the PDF's of the electrical schematics from the DC-400 and CV-400. I tried uploading them, but they are too big for the forum, even as single pages, so I linked them below. Again, they say that you need to consult the inside of your machine to be sure...

    DC-400 electrical schematic

    CV-400 electrical schematic

    CADman_KS

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    Default Like this?

    Okay, so I managed a snapshot of the power transformer, and it looks like this:

    cv400-wiring.jpg

    It looks a little interesting, but I'm fairly confident that'll work. Open it up, and look see if you can find the connection point between 10, 11, and 12.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveKamp View Post
    Okay, so I managed a snapshot of the power transformer, and it looks like this:

    cv400-wiring.jpg

    It looks a little interesting, but I'm fairly confident that'll work. Open it up, and look see if you can find the connection point between 10, 11, and 12.
    I might be silent for a while, since it will be a while before I can get in there and see what is going on. I would really like to be able to look inside there BEFORE I buy one or two for sure. Unfortunately, that may or may not happen.

    I'll reply once I have either successfully gotten into one, or when I have successfully bought one or two.

    CADman_KS

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    Quote Originally Posted by CADman_KS View Post
    ...

    I'll reply once I have either successfully gotten into one, or when I have successfully bought one or two.

    CADman_KS
    Well, I was unable to buy just one or two. I bought three! They were at auction, and I bought the lot of them for $170 ALL IN! But, I think that I can only build two working machines. One of the wire feeder controls probably doesn't work, and one is missing a main lug input, which I suppose could be replaced.

    I've actually had three people tell me that they would buy one if I can get it going.

    I just got them unloaded off the truck. I'll get them apart and get some numbers and report back with what I have for sure.

    Thanks for the help and patience!

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    you can all ways scrape up a wire feeder if you have the power supply going (I might have one or three ).
    you need to make this happen as I have a cv300 just waiting for someone to figure out the process (since all the wire, welder parts and tooling have got me nowhere with you know who )

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveKamp View Post
    Okay, so I managed a snapshot of the power transformer, and it looks like this:

    cv400-wiring.jpg

    It looks a little interesting, but I'm fairly confident that'll work. Open it up, and look see if you can find the connection point between 10, 11, and 12.
    I finally got in there tonight, and the there was a schematic on the inside, but it is totally worthless. It has so much junk on in that I can't clean it up. I do have the owner's manual though, and it has a much better image in it.

    I believe that I have located the connection point between 10, 11, and 12. It is NOT labeled, but some of the other wires are in this welder. Also, while it's a "connection", it's a permanent connection. There are things that look like bus bars coming out of the coils, and all of those are tied together, spot welded or something. I can't really tell how they are mechanically fastened.

    I have attached pictures of what I BELIEVE is the connection that we're talking about.

    imag0147.jpg imag0149.jpg

    Does this look correct?, or should I be looking for wires???

    Thanks again for the help!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wippin' boy View Post
    you can all ways scrape up a wire feeder if you have the power supply going (I might have one or three ).
    you need to make this happen as I have a cv300 just waiting for someone to figure out the process (since all the wire, welder parts and tooling have got me nowhere with you know who )
    I've got the wire feeder as well, so I don't need that either.

    At this point, I'm waiting on some help to figure out what the next step is.

    I must admit that I understand at a 60,000' level what is going on here, but I don't know why really. I can wire anything, and I should be able to figure most of the wiring out, I think, but I can't do that without some guidance from someone who really understands what is going on here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by CADman_KS View Post
    I realize that running it on single phase will not allow it to weld at full amps,
    Why in the world would you think that? That's clearly not true... you might find out that it's actually capable of every bit, and THEN some...

    There are several variations in the CV-400..

    Is THIS your machine?

    http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...oln3/Im480.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveKamp View Post
    Why in the world would you think that? That's clearly not true... you might find out that it's actually capable of every bit, and THEN some...

    There are several variations in the CV-400..

    Is THIS your machine?

    http://www.lincolnelectric.com/asset...oln3/Im480.pdf
    As to the first part about low power, I was somewhat basing that on the RPC concept that you need a bigger motor to run something smaller. I assumed that was true here as well, but I reading since that doesn't appear to be the case.

    As for my welder, I have the version before that I think, a 9405, BUT i quickly going over that schematic, it looks the same as my version, AND it's very clear to read.

    Did you see my post about the 10,11,12 connection? It appears to be a permanent part of the coils, but I can cut the connections if I need to...

    Thanks again for your help!!!!


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