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Load off panel without breaker?
- Thread starter lucky7
- Start date
- Replies 16
- Views 1,749
Phil in Montana
Stainless
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2007
- Location
- Missoula Mt
It can be done, if done right but why? just add a 60 amp breaker and bring 240 over to a sub panel and call it a day...Phil
atomarc
Diamond
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2009
- Location
- Eureka, CA
Taps usually go TO disconnects, fused ones, or the main breakers of other panels. They are lugged onto the feeder by whatever method is convenient. Not usually done hot......
Jraef
Titanium
- Joined
- Aug 10, 2004
- Location
- San Francisco Bay Area
Some breaker panels can come with what are called “Feed Through Lugs” that are factory installed and connected to the bottom of the bus bars for this purpose. Some brands/models have field installable options for this as well. But you can’t legally “roll your own” by drilling and tapping the bus, it has to be an approved and listed option. The main purpose is to feed power through your panel to a sub panel, but they can be used to feed to a single load too, so long as you understand and follow the tap rules. This is not for the average Joe homeowner in most cases though, the rules are not simple.
Not to beat a dead horse and I’ll admit I’m way out of my usual knowledge base here, but I did read the NEC and Canadian Elec Code on taps, and they do call for upstream protection. Length of tap etc determines how much percentage of total ampacity from line the tap can be, but it does have a breaker/fuze/protection on line side- just not dedicated only for the tap or taps themselves as a regular sub panel from main panel would have.
So the question still exists- the guy was talking about line from utility directly to tap without breaker. Sounded non code to me. No?
L7
So the question still exists- the guy was talking about line from utility directly to tap without breaker. Sounded non code to me. No?
L7
Froneck
Titanium
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2010
- Location
- McClure, PA 17059
I'm thinking that it's not the code that matters. I know of no code police wandering around looking for code violations. There are many places that are not up to code simply because they were build prior to code addition or change. However the wiring code was developed to lower fire possibilities while some later codes were added to prevent electrical shock. I would think the best way is to do what is needed to also prevent the situation the code was made for, in this case fire because a breaker's purpose is to limit the amperage delivered to a particular wire size. So as simple rule should be used, the life you protect can be your own!
There are meter boxes (I have one) for a 400 amp service (single phase), that have (2) lugs on each leg, downstream of the meter, that feed your main breaker panel.
In this case, qty (2) 200 amp panels.
1yesca
Stainless
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2004
this reminds me of a story a guy and the range tells about the time he had a job refinishing hard wood floors back in new york before he went off to Korea for the war , he was saying how the floor sanding machine would blow the fuse so his boss had a extension cord that he had cut the plug off of and replaced with with two big alligator clips so he could pop the cover off the panel and clip right on to the mains before the fuse . no more blow fuse the guy tells me i reply ya no more house one day . the other thing he told us about his time in boot camp was the dirt poor kids from the appalachias w.v. 18 19 years old some of them there teeth were so bad they pulled them all at one time and gave them false teeth . i can't say any of its true but no thank you
jim rozen
Diamond
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2004
- Location
- peekskill, NY
Absolute truth there. My buddy from work hired an outfit to re-do his oak floors in his house, the guys did *exactly* that.
George: "uh oh, VERY scary guys."
Floor Guy: "nah, we do this ALL the time, don't worry."
That was standard procedure for bar bands in the 1970s and 80s.
Bars had such bad power that you took a "power box" with you for stage power and clipped it onto the main lugs.
You couldn't run your band power from a single outlet on the same circuit as the coolers.
Bars had such bad power that you took a "power box" with you for stage power and clipped it onto the main lugs.
You couldn't run your band power from a single outlet on the same circuit as the coolers.
Froneck
Titanium
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2010
- Location
- McClure, PA 17059
Thermite I was thinking the application was in a home work shop or small work shop with single phase power. I doubt many companies would allow work that wasn't up to code to be done. Usually it's not the "Code Police" that detect the problem but rather an accident investigation. Hence a fine and probably a huge law Suit to follow. To often the correct wire size for the application such as the one described is connected without breaker protection. However at some later date something else is added possibly eventually more and the wire overloaded. That was prevalent in homes, power strips were plugged into outlets that may have been wired with #14 wire. Fuse blew so larger was used, back in the screw in fuse days (still available but limited to 30 amps) 50 amp were available. Too often a fire was started that didn't flame-up until late while everyone was asleep! Temporary is one thing like the floor sander, at the end of the job the wire is removed. That usually will not create a problem but can.
Best to do it right especially if it's your butt that will get toasted or possibly by bubba at the local lock-up
Best to do it right especially if it's your butt that will get toasted or possibly by bubba at the local lock-up
Last edited:
Superbowl
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2020
A lot of old houses back in the day that are not up graded would only have a couple of 15 amp circuits in the entire house to power all the outlets, lights, and what ever someone tied in. Plug in a heavy duty floor sander to a 15 amp circuit already running a couple of light bulbs etc. ( you can't sand in the dark) and you will trip the breaker constantly. You are not likely to "burn the house down" while a guy is using a floor sander as he often has one hand on the cord and will notice quickly if that cord starts to get hot. Ideally however your "clips" include a ground clip and are part of an extension cord with an integral 20 amp fuse on the black wire.
Folks are discussing what are essentially "taps" here.
I suggest you refer to section 240 of the NEC (for USA) along with the sections referenced there. You will find the cases and conditions under which a "tap" can be connected using wire not rated for the current capacity of the upstream interrupting means.
I suggest you refer to section 240 of the NEC (for USA) along with the sections referenced there. You will find the cases and conditions under which a "tap" can be connected using wire not rated for the current capacity of the upstream interrupting means.
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