Major wiring headaches with Enco 110-2075

Hey all,

I posted a few weeks ago about needing a few pictures of wiring for the Enco 110-2075. I did some digging into the wiring, but still am having tremendous issues.

I think the transformer is bad, as both 0 volt (common i assume) put out actual voltage, and the marked 6v and 29v put out 12v and 33v respectively. According to the schematic, the 6v and 29v should have a fuse on them, but in reality, the 6v splits out to the front panel, and to KMS1 (contactor). Strangely, ONE of the 0v (common?) is fused and runs to a contactor. The other 0v isn't connected to the system.

Additionally, the schematic/ manual lists numbers that my lathe does seem to have. From my research, I believe the schematic is from a later version Enco, where as mine is from the early 90s.

As for my actual testing, the schematic shows 0v and 6v should turn the power lamp on, however, one of the 0v does not. The one previously unused, does. It is worth noting that I'm using Grizzly replacement parts, and not Enco replacement parts (the lamp was missing).

I'm willing to compensate anyone who can help with my issues. I've been working at this for quite some time, and am honestly a bit sick of the lathe not being operational.

Edit: I'm in Houston if anyone wants to see it in person. Will pay for gas/travel.

It would be much easier to follow if you would just
add onto the existing thread ("looking for a schematic")

How much experience do you have with electrical systems? It sounds like you don't have a lot, to be honest.

If you want help doing it yourself you might want to post some images of the schematic and transformer - the schematic should tell what you want it to do and the top of the transformer often labels the primary and secondary. What you're describing sounds more like a buck/boost setup, so I suspect that something's off.

I'm in Albuquerque so I think travel is out.

I am indeed the jerk that doesn't post the schematics....

Attached, as well as a link to everything I have on my lathe:

Grizzly G43 Lathe - Shared Folder

That link is basically a knock off dropbox. There is quite a bit in there, but I don't want to withhold anything that might be beneficial."Self Taken" are pictures of my actual lathe. I've been collecting other peoples pictures as well to try and correlate. The original thread was closed. Initially I went to reply back to it.

I'm not completely inept, but I wouldn't consider myself to know what I'm doing. I can connect wires and measure voltages/continuity/etc... I'd like to add that when I first bought this lathe, it did run, but was in terrible condition. KM1 (contactor controlling front panel) sounded like maybe it was being shorted out. The entire thing was rigged, and didn't have any on/off or safety.

I also want to apologize for how poorly written my original post was. It's been a long weekend, and I've been needing to write it

I think I have that same lathe. You won't like this, but I yanked out all the electrical stuff and did away with the apron control. I mounted a simple for-off-rev drum switch on the headstock, with a quality pull on switch on the console, with a separate on light. No relays, no transformers, just a couple of fuses, kinda like an old South Bend.

You didn't say what the lathe is doing. I will assume that it's not firing up.

The Enco lathe with which I'm familiar is the 240 volt single phase model like the 13" X 40". It's likely that the control transformer has gone out. One reason for that is that when the lathe is plugged in, there is power on the control transformer all of the time so it's hot all of the time. After some years, they tend to go bad.

There are generally forward and reverse contactors as well as an on/off and a jog contactor. I would start by checking the contactor coils to see if they are intact and also what voltage they require. Then, with test leads and a variac AC unit, you could check to see that they operate at the correct voltage. Then you can determine whether that voltage is reaching each contactor.

These lathes are built in the same alley in the PRC as the green-painted ones that start with a "G" so it's possible that you might get a schematic there as mentioned above and also perhaps order a transformer there.

I have to say, though, that the best suggestion is what Daryl Bane says just above. I'd just remove all of the gutty works and keep it simple. You will be glad that you did. Oh, and add some nice fuses, too.

Best of luck.

This shows to be the correct manual/schematic for your lathe: Enco-11-275-79 -Manual-11-13-14.pdf - Google Drive

I have an Enco from the '70s. I also gutted the electrical panel and installed a 3-phase motor and VFD (variable frequency drive). This gives much better speed control, and other features. I would highly recommend that you look into it.

t1b3r1um said:

I'm not completely inept, but I wouldn't consider myself to know what I'm doing. I can connect wires and measure voltages/continuity/etc... I'd like to add that when I first bought this lathe, it did run, but was in terrible condition. KM1 (contactor controlling front panel) sounded like maybe it was being shorted out. The entire thing was rigged, and didn't have any on/off or safety.

Click to expand...

So start at the beginning. Make sure that the transformer is getting the appropriate voltage on it's inputs and generating the right stuff on the outputs. Check from ground lug to the 240 lug on the input to make sure it's getting 240 or thereabouts. Often the inputs are wired through a power contactor that holds on the output of the transformer (meaning the hold on the contactor is energized through the stop NC switch by the transformer). If you have a "power on" button that isn't latching it's likely that the transformer secondary is out, the stop button is open, the coil on the contactor is bad or the overload is open.

Looking at the schematic you can check the 6V from the transformer secondary going ftom the 6V lug to either end of fuse 2, and the 29V from the same lug to either end of fuse 1. Make sure that the fuses are good before engaging power and checking.

Once you know that you have power going through and the right voltages to the controls you can start checking the control operation. Usually these things have a single point of failure and can be quickly repaired, it'll take longer if someone's been in there messing with things.

(P.S. - that app sucks. really, really, bad. damn near gave up, it still won't let me right click to have more than on tap open unless I go and open another link to it and a cut-n-paste doesn't take me where I was so they're keeping state somewhere other than the link. So - really, really sucks.)

To add to my train wreck of an initial post, the lathe ran (poorly) pre-rebuild, but everything was rigged together. Basically, plug the lathe into the wall, and FWD/REV. No start, stop, etc. The KM1 contactor didn't sound right. it sounded like maybe it was being shorted.

The control transformer MIGHT have gone out I assume that 29 and 6 refer to voltage, of which neither equal. The 29v reads 33v, and the 6v reads 12v when grounded to PE (earth). one of the common grounds is not connected to anything, both commons or 0v have actual voltage when measured against PE (earth).

@newman - I'm not opposed to gutting it, my concern would be wiring it back up. Seeing as I'm not capable of fixing the factory mess, I'm not sure how successful I'd be at something custom.

@Steve - I might just have the redheaded step child then. My numbers don't match up with the schematic. I don't have a 14/15/etc

@rke[pler - I have 220v to the control transformer, I can confirm that. My 6v goes splits, goes to port/spot (1) on the terminal block, and to KM1. My 0v (the only one hooked up) goes to the fuse. the 29v also goes to the fuse. Are you on a PC or Mac? I created an archive of everything and uploaded it. Try downloading this instead:

Grizzly G43 Lathe.rar - Shared File

I have worked on a bunch of newer versions of this lathe.

The lever on the saddle needs to be in the center before the power relay KM1 will latch in,
and there is a switch under the cover covering the belt and gears that must be pushed in too.
The secondary of the transformer is not grounded and can be several volts off ground.
You always measure to the 0 terminal on the power transformer, measurements to ground are meaningless.

Bill


It works best to put the pictures in the thread, then they will be there for others in the future.

I measured the 6 and 29 against what I assume is their respective common rail. 6 =6v, and 29=33v

Additionally, I spend $35 on a re-print of the manual, and it included the attached diagram that the manual everyone has linked didn't include. The numbering isn't as clear as I would have liked, so I cleaned it up a bit in photoshop.



Interesting to see that 14 (on the diagram) translates to 11, which i do have in my terminal block

Well,

I'm going from "Nothing is working" to, just a few things are not working.

FWD doesn't work. It spins for a half second before shutting off. I can switch it to REV, and then back and it will work. I think I probably have the FWD switch miswired, I need to recheck everything.

Light on START doesn't work,

All I have three wires running to the heating relay, all on the same terminal (Pictures below). Not really a problem, but something I'd like to fix

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

When it's all said and done, I'll post some diagrams for any unfortunate soul who has the same basterdized wiring as me.

On your second photo, check wire 4 and the one to the left of it. They look like they are barely attached to the contactor terminal, if at all.

SAF Ω

SAF said:

On your second photo, check wire 4 and the one to the left of it. They look like they are barely attached to the contactor terminal, if at all.

SAF Ω

Click to expand...

They are connected, but the label slid down a bit. I'll double check when i get home.

I think the motor might be wired incorrect internally

I'm still checking my wiring on the lathe, but wanted to see if someone might be able to confirm the wiring on the motor. When I was disassembling the terminal block, it completely crumbled to pieces, and it had to be replaced. I took a few before photos, but needless to say, i didn't capture everything i'd wanted. Additionally, I lost one photo of the motor it's self's wiring, which is where I think my issue is.

On my lathe, I have the following wires: Z2,Z1,V2,U1 (and a PE)

On the Motor, I have W2, U2, V2 / U1, V1, W1. The 6 wires are separated in groups of three. Three go above the motor, and three go below. This diagram was posted to the inside of the cover of the motor:

https://i.imgur.com/mrkHRkJ.jpg
Here are the rather useless photos I have of the before:

Imgur: The magic of the Internet
From top to bottom (left to right), I have 1 small wire, a thick wire, and another thick wire

On bottom (left to right), I have 1 thick, 1 thick, and 1 thin wire.

This is how I have it wired now, I would NOT trust my labeling (written in Sharpie):

Imgur: The magic of the Internet
Lastly, I do have this picture I randomly found on the internet. I don't have a clue as to what motor it came from.

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Last summer I had the control transformer burn up on a Enco 13 X40 lathe. It took out the entire control panel since it fed 240 VAC into all of the contactors. The motor was undamaged but everything else was completely burned up.

The problem was discovered to be the fact that when the machine was plugged in, there was power to the transformer at all times. After a lot of years, it shorted and wiped everything out. There should have been a cutoff for when the machine was not in use. There were no fuses, either.

The decision was made to make a new motherboard from aluminum with a phenolic wiring panel and also to replace all of the contactors. There are no original parts available except from the Green G company and their prices are out of sight.

I found contactors on Amazon for the FWD and REV reversing units and on eBay for the on-off and jog. It took me a week to re-do but now it's running again and there is a main power cutoff ahead of the transformer. I also replaced the control transformer with a large Acme that I bought from the for sale section here several years ago.

The first picture below is an abbreviated version of the motor wiring from the manual which was generally difficult to understand.

The second picture is of the control panel as it is now. All of the parts cost about $150 and the aluminum and phenolic were from my scrap panel. I also added three fuses and a 120 VAC fan that is on when the machine is in use.

Note that the wiring diagram shows L and N for the mains wires. The manual used L (line) and N (neutral) for both 120 and 240 setups. Note that the direction changes with movement of one wire. Z2 is for 120 VAC use only.

I wrote this job up and posted it last year but I can no longer find it. Hope this helps you out.

Here is another picture. It shows the wires that feed the motor. It was taken as I was working on the project. The Z2 was not used since it's for 120 VAC usage and this machine runs on 240 VAC single phase. The green/Yellow wire is the safety ground and is grounded to the motor and also to the case. Apparently PE is the maker's code for a safety ground as shown also on the first wiring diagram.

I think i narrowed it down to a faulty contactor. I have one coming in via DHL from across the pond. I'll let you know!

Daryl, just came across this post and am a newbie to this site. I have an Enco lathe and want to do exactly like your did with taking out the electrical stuff and using a for-off-rev drum switch. I can wire and that but not good at figuring out the schematics. As you have done it,would you mind sharing yours and any pictures would help. I have a 3 hp motor on 220 and there are a start and run capacitor on my motor. Motor works fine and everything else good, just issuers with all the switches etc. Thanks for the time.