Mechanical ways to do a T branch circuit? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    Well the breaker is 30A and there is a long run of 8 gauge to the branch box. No regrets.
    Then all is good and well, the no. 10 wire is correctly protected. But under no circumstances solder any connections
    together as your copy of the NEC in your bookshelf will catch on fire. Or explode. Or both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Then all is good and well, the no. 10 wire is correctly protected. But under no circumstances solder any connections
    together as your copy of the NEC in your bookshelf will catch on fire. Or explode. Or both.
    Imagine a priest giving his blessing on that thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    Imagine a priest giving his blessing on that thought.
    Some religions say solder. Others say never solder. What say the FSM?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Some religions say solder. Others say never solder. What say the FSM?
    Twist, then solder WAS, at one time, the preferred method. Not sure when it was changed. I shall have to guess some time later than 1955 based on my "OJT".

    Dad traded rather good training for the utility of far smaller hands and body than his, and fully ambidextrous as well. Plumbing under a sink or vanity, etc.

    House got built faster and more easily.

    "Child labour" back in the day was thirsted after. It was how we learned fast and well, were treated as valued contributors rather than burdens, had the exposure that shaped our choices as to education and careers, etc.

    Pity no one ever thinks to ask the kids which way they'd rather deal with any of that, just puts them into boxes made of tiki-taki.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Some religions say solder. Others say never solder. What say the FSM?
    What would you say if a twist connection has two wires, one stranded copper and the other stranded tin? Would there be corrosion at the microscopic level.
    When you think about it, a stranded wire connection is just applying a twist to wires that are already twisted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    What would you say if a twist connection has two wires, one stranded copper and the other stranded tin? Would there be corrosion at the microscopic level.
    When you think about it, a stranded wire connection is just applying a twist to wires that are already twisted.
    I'd say we are approaching two hundred years of global experience with it all - most pervasive early use that of terrestrial and submarine telegraph wiring.

    Atmospheric corrosion happens. Humidity matters. Biologicals exist ss live on the strangest things and produce the damndest of bio-corrosive life-cycle debris.

    Interesting field to research. Feel free to dive into it. A late acquiantance of mine had done. David was the designer of what we called the "BT style" flat, wide, telephone jack and socket. Those that survive in humid climates better than the "RJ" family we see more often. The working contacts are further apart - corrosion and conductive path build-up is slower. That basic.

    Meanwhile, use what has been proven to work.

    Or buy some Brazil nuts, AKA candlenuts, light up - no need of a wick or other infrastructure, just the naked nut-meat.

    That'll illuminate yer life with REALLY "well proven" technology that also avoids need of killing whales for lamp oil!

    Versatile critters, nuts can be. If they lack nutritional value, have gone moldy or rotten, or are otherwise known to be toxic to humans?

    Just elect them to public office and send them off to Congress to mess up the lives of your enemies.

    You'd have to know devious Californios...


  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    What would you say if a twist connection has two wires, one stranded copper and the other stranded tin? Would there be corrosion at the microscopic level.
    When you think about it, a stranded wire connection is just applying a twist to wires that are already twisted.
    You won't find tin wires in any business or residence in the US.

    a) way too expensive
    b) electrical conductivity way too low

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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    You won't find tin wires in any business or residence in the US.

    a) way too expensive
    b) electrical conductivity way too low
    I suspect we all know Ron meant "tinnED" (Copper..), not pure Tin?

    Conductivity need not always be high, and yes, you may find "some", just seldom for POWER uses.

    Older telephone handset cords. Tin foil. With real Tin. Commonly called "tinsel wire". A thin foil wrapped around vegetable fiber before jacketing. Crimp to it if you must deal with it at all.

    Not wise to attempt to solder. Among other ills, the fibers carbonize! DAMHIKT, but learnt "the hard way", late 1940's when I first undertook dabling in telephony for lack of grounded Zeppelin's or wrecked starship salvage to learn on. You'd have to know barefoot-poor West By God Virginia?

    Tinsel conductors were the way we resisted fatigue failure in the long years before modern coily-cords.

    Cupro-Nickel and more exotic alloys, yet, are utilized nowadays rather than Tin, but "tinsel" style wire is still in use. Also still a pain in the ass to terminate reliably. TANSTAAFL..

    See also flexible printed circuits.

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=thermite;3431187]I suspect we all know Ron meant "tinnED" (Copper..), not pure Tin?

    Ron is smart, I figured he said what he meant. Not tin plated. Tin.

    Gimp (tinsel wire) is actually copper ribbon, woven into fabric to form the round conductors. I could
    send you some to disassemble if you want. It's easy to terminate. The easiest way is to use special
    crimp lugs that have small spikes that penetrate and contact the conductors. See also 'phoneco.'

    PHONECO Antique phone, collectible telephone, old telephone

    The old way to terminate gimp with phone tips is to serve (wrap) the fabric ends with cotton thread, and the
    inner gimp conductors with fine copper wire. Then the hollow phone tip is filled with solder, and heated so
    the solder is molten. A bit of rosin flux on the copper wire end, and plunge into the solder.

    The cheater's way is to apply the crimp terminal, cut off the lug end, and then simply put that into the solder.

    Pure tin wire would be exorbitantly expensive.

    But on the off chance...

    Soldering unplated and tin *plated* wire together, no problem. The tin plating would dissolve into the solder
    joint just fine. Copper itself is slightly soluble in molten solder. Hence the effect where a weller solder gun
    tip just goes away after a while, and the reason that soldering iron tips, are iron plated (hexecon, anyone?) to
    prevent that problem.

    Lots of things dissolve in molten solder. Gold for example, forms a very low-melting eutectic with lead. Go ahead,
    and just *try* to solder a gold wire with lead-tin solder. Dare ya.

  10. #30
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    No, I do not believe Ron meant pure Tin.

    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    and just *try* to solder a gold wire with lead-tin solder. Dare ya.
    ? Why on Earth?

    Yah have ta preserve the overall Gold percentage.

    There was never any Lead-bearing solder under our roof where working Gold and Platinum. Even for low-line 14K goods, our "go-to" was I. Kassoy's 19 Kt White "welding" solder. The joint simply vanishes, even on yellow, green, rose, or pink gold. Rings & such can be sized again, later without it failing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    I used twist nuts this morning. The wire lengths are long enough so that one day I can replace the nuts with copper bus bars. For now case closed, literally.
    For your further information, on the next go round.

    A capacity chart for 3M wire nuts, they are UL listed for up two #6 AWG in the large blue size, so two #10's and a #8 is no problem.

    3M Catalog Link

    3m-wirenutcapacitychart.jpg

    Insulated connector blocks, some with mounting holes, are available in a multitude of sizes from a few makers.
    These are nice connectors to use, but are on the pricey side. Normally used in a wiring trough. Likely a bit big for a 4" Sq junction box.

    Burndy

    http://www.nsiindustries.com/catalog...cal-connectors





    Yet one more option is a distribution block. Also a bit large for a 4" Sq Box.



    Power distribution fuse and power distribution and terminal blocks | PDBs

    Power Distribution Blocks & Splicer Blocks - Littelfuse

    https://www.hubbell.com/burndy/en/Pr...als/cl/2146731

    Happy Shopping
    MTW Ω

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    Quote Originally Posted by SAF View Post
    For your further information, on the next go round.

    A capacity chart for 3M wire nuts, they are UL listed for up two #6 AWG in the large blue size, so two #10's and a #8 is no problem.

    3M Catalog Link

    3m-wirenutcapacitychart.jpg

    Insulated connector blocks, some with mounting holes, are available in a multitude of sizes from a few makers.
    These are nice connectors to use, but are on the pricey side. Normally used in a wiring trough. Likely a bit big for a 4" Sq junction box.

    Burndy

    http://www.nsiindustries.com/catalog...cal-connectors





    Yet one more option is a distribution block. Also a bit large for a 4" Sq Box.



    Power distribution fuse and power distribution and terminal blocks | PDBs

    Power Distribution Blocks & Splicer Blocks - Littelfuse

    https://www.hubbell.com/burndy/en/Pr...als/cl/2146731

    Happy Shopping
    MTW Ω
    IIRC you can get those distribution blocks premounted in clean enclosures. Not sure on the price but last I looked they could be had for a reasonable price used.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strostkovy View Post
    IIRC you can get those distribution blocks premounted in clean enclosures. Not sure on the price but last I looked they could be had for a reasonable price used.
    That WAS the point of linking two different load-centers. Everything connectorish comes with each one for the twelve bucks but either of fuses for one, or circuit-breakers for the other. Task should have one or the other, anyway.

    For $12? Why TF mess any further?

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=jim rozen;3431271]
    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Ron is smart, I figured he said what he meant.

    No, I'm not. If I was...

    I would have figured out how to get out of this rat race area and move to Tahiti.
    Laying on the beach with topless babes serving me Mai Tai cocktails and giving me massages.

    Eat aphrodisiacs all day and spending the night with hot women.

    A friend went to Tahiti with his wife and she had to take off her top on the beach so as not
    to be out of place. They met an Australian woman on the beach and she said that Americans
    make too much of a big deal about women's breasts.

  15. #35
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    [QUOTE=rons;3431942]
    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post


    No, I'm not. If I was...

    I would have figured out how to get out of this rat race area and move to Tahiti.
    Laying on the beach with topless babes serving me Mai Tai cocktails and giving me massages.

    Eat aphrodisiacs all day and spending the night with hot women.

    A friend went to Tahiti with his wife and she had to take off her top on the beach so as not
    to be out of place. They met an Australian woman on the beach and she said that Americans
    make too much of a big deal about women's breasts.
    You garble the quote. I'd class you "OCD" rather than stooopid, but it was I who figure you meant tinned Copper and owd Jim who figured you meant SOLID tin, if only so he could go off on a NEW tangent for the pure Devilment of it..

    If life, per Hacker's First Law is: "Too DAMNED short to drink bad wine, use slow computers, or share a blanket with a bitch.", then re-inventing common electrical goods isn't on my dance-card.

    Tahiti? Haven't had the privilege..

    OTOH? "Dance Card"? Wife and I did have the privilege of co-hosting the 21st B'Day party for a member of the Royal Family of a different Pacific Island nation, dancing with a Princess "to be looked UP to."

    Genetic diversity is welcomed, SOME, not ALL, of those small populations, BUT ...

    You'd want to stand no less than six-foot four and 300 lbs Avoir if you expect to hold anything MORE than "your own", retiring to an island like Tonga.



    Suggest Thailand if the physical is your wont. Iceland if brains matter. Santa Catalina if you are not yet fully committed, need to come home weekdays to do laundry or such? Victoria, BC may be the CLEANEST town on-planet. Also boring. Even so, yer mind finally goes, yah could hire-out for a birdshit depository statue, make Borchardt Gardens more interesting.

    Or the Falkland Islands if PM is to have any rest from custom-made VFD cases finished as if they were jewel boxes.

    You'd have to know "OCD"?


  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=thermite;3431947]so he could go off on a NEW tangent for the pure Devilment of it..

    Never seen *that* happen around here. By anyone named Thermmmmmmm.......


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