Feeler FTL-618 on a VFD?

intothefiregw · Mar 21, 2020

I am strongly considering buying this Feeler FTL-618 lathe but I only have access to 115v in my garage, I see a lot of VFD's that will make 230v 3 phase but I've been told by several people it may be a bad idea since they run 4 separate motors. Does anyone have any experience with using a VFD on a lathe like this?

Hopefuldave · Mar 22, 2020

Pass on that particular lathe, my mill has three separate motors and I chose to go with a (home brewed) RPC instead of three separate VFDs, had to raise the incoming voltage from 240 to 415 first with a transformer (oil-cooled welder with a new, isolating, secondary coil, also home brewed) - could you lay your hands on a transformer to get you from 110 to 230 and a 3-phase motor? Here in Europe it's a health and safety requirement to use a 240-110 isolating transformer (3 - 5 KVA are common) on work sites outdoors, maybe something similar is available there?

Dave H. (the other one)

Hopefuldave · Mar 22, 2020

One more thing... once you have 3-phase it opens up a world of used industrial machinery (unless you have superhuman self-discipline) which (at least this side of the pond) tends to be cheaper for what you get, as the hobbyists generally don't have 3-phase - and you'd be able to plug and play, no VFDs or rewiring, just unload it and roll it in.

Dave H. (the other one)

intothefiregw · Mar 22, 2020

Thanks for the replies Dave, So you're saying its possible if I use the VFD for the main drive and wire the other 3 all separately??? sound like a headache... Ive started looking for transformers and found this...

Single Phase 110v To 3 Phase 220v Ac Power Supply Manufacturer,Supplier,Exporter

my electrical knowledge is extremely limited... why are you saying I should pass on this one? I sold my south bend to upgrade and I haven't had a lathe in over a month so im itching to make some chips.

Hopefuldave · Mar 22, 2020

No! Pass as in "I'll pass on that question, naext?" - the Feelers have a good reputation, if it's in good order (certainly looks it) and affordable go for it and put together an RPC to do the same job as that convertor but for a fifth of the price (or less) - read the thread on building an RPC, not rocket surgery nor brain science, either!

Dave H. (the other one)

mksj · Mar 22, 2020

Most 120 to 240 VFD are 1 Hp or less, in addition VFD's for the most part are made to be directly wired to the motor and not made to be a 3 phase source for running control circuits. Exception would be the Phase Perfect VFD's, which just only generate the 3rd leg and are much more expensive. There are no transformers that will go from 120 single phase to 3 phase 240VAC. RPC is your only reasonable option and would require 240 VAC source. Do it right or don't do it at all.

intothefiregw · Mar 22, 2020

Noted, disappointing to hear but not surprising. Thank you.

Hopefuldave · Mar 23, 2020

intothefiregw said:
Noted, disappointing to hear but not surprising. Thank you.

Don't be disappointed, that Feeler's a great lathe - just bite the bullet and learn a little about RPCs, buy a few parts (transformer from 110 to 230 x 5kVA, 230v 3-phase motor (about 7HP should be enough), some contactors, capacitors, switches etc.) and call in a friend with electrical experience and you're all set

Should cost you less than a quick-change toolpost, and means you have a decent lathe you can use!

Dave H. (the other one)

jim rozen · Mar 23, 2020

4 motors sounds like a lot.

1) coolant pump
2) carraige feed
3) speed change motor
4) spindle motor.

Don't use coolant? Now 3 motors.
Carriage feed is really a dc motor off single phase. Now 2 motors.
VFD supplies variable speed capability. Put the varispeed sheaves in the mid-position, now one motor.

VFD works just fine for one motor.

intothefiregw · Mar 24, 2020

Damn... I LOVE the sound of that Jim...

mksj · Mar 24, 2020

The mechanical speed change motor is 3 phase. So you are essentially bypassing and rewiring the whole lathe and mechanical speed adjustment when the goal was to run the lathe on a single 3 phase source. By not using the mechanical speed drive you loose the mechanical advantage, the Hp of the stock motor will fall off linear below the base speed and the lathe will be gutless at low speed. The carriage drive is run off of 2 legs of 240VAC and stepped down to 110VAC via a transformer, as least on the schematic I saw, the carriage drive is DC. So you may need to replace the transformer.

The stock motor is 1.5 Hp 3 phase, so you will probably need a 30A single phase 120V source, the Invertek 120V, 1.5Hp 3 phase 240V ODE-3-210058-1042 species an input current of 22A. They run around $320.

Seems like a poor patchwork of choices unless the lathe is dirt cheap, or you could use no motors and just add a foot pedal.

Hopefuldave · Mar 24, 2020

mksj said:
The mechanical speed change motor is 3 phase. So you are essentially bypassing and rewiring the whole lathe and mechanical speed adjustment when the goal was to run the lathe on a single 3 phase source. By not using the mechanical speed drive you loose the mechanical advantage, the Hp of the stock motor will fall off linear below the base speed and the lathe will be gutless at low speed. The carriage drive is run off of 2 legs of 240VAC and stepped down to 110VAC via a transformer, as least on the schematic I saw, the carriage drive is DC. So you may need to replace the transformer.

The stock motor is 1.5 Hp 3 phase, so you will probably need a 30A single phase 120V source, the Invertek 120V, 1.5Hp 3 phase 240V ODE-3-210058-1042 species an input current of 22A. They run around $320.

Seems like a poor patchwork of choices unless the lathe is dirt cheap, or you could use no motors and just add a foot pedal.

Or... build the rotary converter, plug and play! Also have the opportunity to snap up 3-phase machinery at good prices, plug and play...

I've no argument with VFDs where appropriate, my lathe runs two (spindle motor and suds pump, spindle was a challenge as it has a 3-speed motor), but a RPC is a lot easier to implement than a hatful of VFDs, particularly as intothefire claims to be a little challenged regarding electrickery!

Dave H. (the other one)

intothefiregw · Mar 24, 2020

I had an electrician friend come out and look things over. waiting on a quote to get me some 220 out to my shop... if the cost isn't insane then that seems to make the most sense...

intothefiregw · Mar 24, 2020

MKSJ, Where did you find the schematic?

mksj · Mar 24, 2020

Most of these are similar in design, but can vary by year. The schematic is in the back of this document, it appears similar the the Hardinge in the link below. Not a simple rewire, your are pretty much gutting all the electricals and switch gear to put in a VFD, in addition to performing poorly, your resale value would also drop.
http://www.hhrobertsmachinery.com/S...ematic/Cyclematic-618-Feeler-parts-manual.pdf
Hardinge

jim rozen · Mar 25, 2020

Gutting not required. Just wire the spindle motor to the VFD with the motor configured for high speed.

Disconnect the speed change motor and set the reeves drive midway. The spindle motor will be
constant torque below nameplate speed and constant HP above nameplate speed.

Be sure the dc motor for the carriage feed gets 240 where it needs it.

You don't need to remove anything from the control box, just disconnect and make a diagram of
what is changed. Label and insulate the wires you disconnect.

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