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  1. #21
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    I have no horse in this race, but this was really simple to find...

    https://www.grainger.com/ec/pdf/6K321_1.pdf

    Stuart

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    Yah, that's all well and good, but if you take a look at it, it's not what he has. It's a different revision, and the diagram and colors don't match what he posted.

    SAF Ω

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    Sheeesh...is this more 'well & good'...just trying to help out here.

    If you go to the link and pan over the picture of the motor the wiring diagram is pretty clear.

    Stuart

    Amazon.com: Dayton 6K321 Belt Drive Motor, CS, ODP, 1 hp, 1725 RPM: Industrial & Scientific

  4. #24
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    The motor connection diagram on Amazon is easier to read and confirms what I've been saying. "TO REVERSE ROTATION INTERCHANGE RED AND BLACK LEADS" Exactly as is printed on the motor connection label including all capitol letters. And the connections for other operations are also better. But!! looking at the connection diagram on Amazon and the photo the OP provided they are not exactly the same. Terminals are in different locations! However the connections are the same!
    Simply put without internal wiring diagram there is no way to determine how the start winding circuit is arranged internally. So applying power to Red or Black shown in the few diagrams posted can not be done! That is why I suggested connecting the Red and Black wires so that they simply interchange and nothing more and to use the remaining single pole switch to connect/disconnect power. If 240VAC operation is desired then it will have to be done so that only one side of the 240VAC is disconnected! This in not a major problem since there are a great number of switches operating like that. Newer equipment NO but the majority of older motor switching was done that way and never changed! The other option is connect the motor for 120VAC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoggerBoy View Post
    Hey guys, I used this diagram shown and the motor was initially running fine. Silent in forward and reverse. I started turning pieces on my lathe and noticed the motor started to smoke ever so slightly after about 30 minutes of use. I shut it off and sure enough, I didnít notice the motor heating up. It was hot to the touch. Any ideas on what I screwed up. I went off this diagram above.
    A bit of reverse engineering your motor connections, using this motor connection diagram from Amazon, which is similar to yours, but slightly different model 6K321BE
    amazon6k321-1-motor.jpg

    Reveals a problem with reversal from your drum switch. The problem arises from the start winding internal connections in the model you have. The start winding polarity, needs to be reversed, in order to reverse the motor direction. The problem with yours is the start switch is built in to the connection block at the rear end, and has no way to disconnect one end of it. It is internally connected to terminal #4. This would need to be modified internally, if possible, to separate the start switch supply. And reconnect to the drum switch, as shown below.

    If you had to choose another motor for the lathe, it would be much better to obtain a motor with a connection box, that had all of the leads brought out, such as this one,
    DAYTON 1 HP General Purpose Motor,Capacitor-Start,1725 Nameplate RPM,Voltage 115'/'230,Frame 56 - 6K810'|'6K810 - Grainger

    Another option would be to wire your existing motor with two switches, one on/off DPST, and one DPDT, this may be cumbersome to operate the lathe from easily. But we don't know if yours still works after its overheat.

    Here is a drawing of your model 6K321BF showing the internal connections, and modification required to connect to your drum switch at 230V, you may or not want to attempt this or obtain a different motor.
    dayton-6k321-rev-1hp-tp-motor-drum-sw.jpg

    SAF Ω

  6. #26
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    Being he already has the motor changing it will add expense! Also the wiring modification will require motor disassembly and knowledge of motor wiring. To someone as the OP claimed has little electrical knowledge that to becomes a difficult option plus that's also assuming the shown start circuit is wired as in post 25. As I mentioned previously in looking at colored wiring internal motor circuitry Red and black are the wires connected directly to the start winding. If the OP used connection as shown in post 6 and assumed Red and Black were the start circuit as shown he would have probably blown a fuse because in one position the line would be shorted by the start switch! The start switch might be toasted or leads to it fried and the motor running continuously with the start winding connected and getting power! There is no other option for the OP than to use the Red and Black to reverse as shown in the diagram! In addition the wires shown in the connection port photo are probably the wires connected directly to the motor and colors agree with that colored internal diagram shown when Googling the connection, the other wire colors are probably connected on the other side to that terminal board! If the OP wants to go with the two switch method so as to be able to disconnect both sides of the 240VAC line I would think that instead of a switch a small double pole contacter/relay with 120VAC coil voltage will work better in that the power from the Drum switch will operate the contacter/relay using it's single pole. If the OP does not want the additional expense his only option is to switch one side of the 240VAC line or operate the motor on 120VAC. There is no benefit to running it on 240VAC other than allowing a smaller wire to feed the motor when using 240VAC. I'm sure 12AWG will work fine with 120VAC for this motor! If I were the OP, I would remove drum switch connections, connect power wires to the 2 input screws shown in the terminal port in the photo with all other connection as shown. Flip the breaker or plug it in to test that the motor is operating as it should! It will be best for him to start a drum switch rewire knowing that the motor runs without any issues!
    Last edited by Froneck; 04-18-2020 at 11:26 AM.

  7. #27
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    Default More info.

    https://www.grainger.com/ec/pdf/6K321_1.pdf
    Above is 6K321BF wiring diagram I found searching Google. But if looking at the connection diagram the OP posted they are NOT the same!! Also start circuit is shown with 2 Red wires. Red being connected to Term. 2 in the OP's low voltage diagram is not in the drawing(Term. 2 is unused). Guessing at how the OP's motor is connected can lead to a motor burn-up. Only safe connection is not to assume anything and reverse Red and Black connection to the terminals they are shown connected to as directed on the OP's motor diagram photo. Supply no voltage to any of them since what ever is needed is provided by the respective terminal connections! Without the exact internal wiring diagram any other connection is a crap shoot! Therefore without the exact wiring diagram of the motor the OP has are only 3 options. (1) wire the drum switch to reverse Red and Black to their shown connections and wire the motor for 120VAC. (2) Connect the Red and Black same as (1) wire motor for 240VAC but switch on/off only one side of the 240VAC line. (3) Include a switch or contacter/relay in connection (2) to remove both sides of the 240VAC line when power is turned Off. Sure buy another motor is an option But what happens if when looking for the connection diagram the same situation is duplicated? The OP has to decide which option is best for him or to get local help from someone that can with the use of an OHM meter and or disassemble the motor to determine how it's connected internally!!

  8. #28
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    The problem with relying in boilerplate motor and switch diagrams is the colors are often different than the diagram suggests. The only real way to
    do this without the magic smoke gettng out, is to trace out all the connections. Often this means actually dismantling the motor to be sure.

    Because dual voltage motors like this use a trick (putting one end of the starting circuit at the midpoint of the running windings, which are in series) it's
    easier to reverse them when wired for 240 volts. The start circuit is connected to either L1, or L2. One way is fwd, the other rev. This only requires
    one pole of the three pole switchgear. The other two poles remove all power from the motor when in the off position.

    See the diagram above.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    The problem with relying in boilerplate motor and switch diagrams is the colors are often different than the diagram suggests. The only real way to
    do this without the magic smoke gettng out, is to trace out all the connections. Often this means actually dismantling the motor to be sure.

    Because dual voltage motors like this use a trick (putting one end of the starting circuit at the midpoint of the running windings, which are in series) it's
    easier to reverse them when wired for 240 volts. The start circuit is connected to either L1, or L2. One way is fwd, the other rev. This only requires
    one pole of the three pole switchgear. The other two poles remove all power from the motor when in the off position.

    See the diagram above.
    Jim, the problem is that if you look at the photo of the Diagram attached to the motor Post #1 it's not the same as the one I just previously posted in Post #28 nor is it the same as the diagram of the motor in Amazon Post #23 and all being the same model number motor! These motors were probably made in different locations and have different connections so have a different connection label attached indicating how that particular motor is to be wired. The big problem is how is the Start winding connected internally. There are a few ways the start winding can be connected and it too is 120VAC like the 2 run coils. Simply put the run coils in series and it's 240VAC attach them parallel and 120VAC. Power for the start when in 240VAC is taken from the junction of the 2 run winding and one of the lines. However there are a few ways for the manufacturer to connect the start winding, capacitor and centrifugal switch. Reversing the coil will reverse the start, connecting the capacitor to the other input will also reverse the start. Trying to reverse engineer the connection would be easy if all the connection diagrams were the same. All the diagrams state to interchange Red and Black to reverse rotation, only problem when trying to do that with a 3 pole switch is that some how voltage must be applied to Red or Black from the Drum Switch if double pole disconnection is desired. However there is no clear indication how the terminals on the motor are wired nor what is connected to the Red and Black wires and in the drawing I linked both sides of the Capacitor have Red wires. Plus the connection terminal numbers are different. Red wire is connected to #4, #1 and 6 are input, but in the OP's motor #4 is input power there is no 5 and 6. There are a few probabilities as to how the motor the OP has in hand is wired but an incorrect connection could blow the Capacitor as well as other damage. Without an actual internal connection diagram of the motor the OP has the only safe way to connect the drum switch is to do as instructed on the diagram attached to the OP's motor without attempting to assume what the internal connections are! To add to the confusion I have looked at a number of other diagrams and from what I see this motor was connected in a number of different ways. A number of the other diagrams were done in wire color. The colored wires were the coil connection and various internal connections were in a sort of a gray. Those diagrams have the start coil connections Red and Black. Capacitor and switch in gray.
    Granted that if I had this motor in front of me I could determine how it's wired internally with little more than an OHM meter. As it is my only information is the diagram attached to the motor in the photo provided. So with nothing to confirm internal wiring the only safe way to connect the motor is to use all 4 start connections so they can be interchanged leaving a single pole switch in the drum to connect/disconnect power. I use safe to mean not to cause damage to the motor.
    I've described the best connection given the information on the OP's motor so he can connect the drum switch with little knowledge of electrical circuitry he stated he has.
    Last edited by Froneck; 04-18-2020 at 09:13 PM.

  10. #30
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    "The big problem is how is the Start winding connected internally. "

    Not a big problem - diassemble and trace out the wiring. Only way to be sure.

  11. #31
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    Yes Jim that is a solution for many of us that understand motor wiring. But as the OP mentioned wiring is not his forte. That is quite evident because he stated the motor is not wired for 240VAC and that the photo of the wiring is as he received and requested help to wire it for 240VAC. However the wiring in the photo IS for 240VAC!!! Many of us here that have the ability would not be asking for help, those that need help look to us for support. What he's getting is the same as if he didn't know how to change the spark plug in his lawn mower so we are telling him to remove the head to measure the distance between the piston and spark plug because if the plug is too long it will get hit by the piston. To someone that doesn't know what the piston is nor own the wrenches needed!
    Simply wire the motor as directed by the connection diagram on the motor!!! If he changes the wiring to 120VAC because as I mentioned above it is currently or at least was wired 240VAC and use the double poles on the drum switch to interchange Red and Black. Thought wiring it for 240VAC with only a single pole power disconnect would get him running the NEC police will not raid his shop! Plus it's been commonly done. If at a later date he can add a contacter or relay if he wants to be NEC compliant After all this help the OP might have scrapped the lathe and taken up basket weaving!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Froneck View Post
    Yes Jim that is a solution for many of us that understand motor wiring. But as the OP mentioned wiring is not his forte. ...
    Wasn't mine either, until I had taken apart a half dozen motors. This is one way to understand things in a visceral way. He wants to wire it a particular
    way, great. He'll have to do the work to figure it out. Or not as you say.

  13. #33
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    Ahhhh!!! OK putting that way Jim the OP has the choice of learning how a single phase Capacitor start motor works. So what the Capacitor, Start Coil and Centrifugal Switch are, how they work and how they can be wired to achieve start and how the rotation can be reversed. Or if not wanting to do that just to wire the motor of the new toy he purchased by simply connecting it as I have described in Post 2. Either that or get someone with the knowledge how the connection is made and be able to identify that the connection diagram does not provide the need information to connect a 3 pole drum switch for reversing with a double pole disconnect for 240VAC operation, disassemble the motor to identify how the start circuit is internally connected and possibly modify it to accomplish the drum switch connection as wanted by the OP.
    However if the OP has not started Basket Weaving yet and wants to simply connect his motor to play with his new toy then connect the drum switch as described in Post 2! Also understand that the connections shown in the terminal Port photo ARE for 240VAC operation and does not have to be changed if 240VAC is desired voltage. If for 120VAC then change the connections as indicated in the connection diagram for 115VAC (as it is on the diagram) Note Connect Red to #2, White to #4 and Brown to #3. Then wire drum switch as per Post #2. Also note that the diagram and specifications are for 115/204 and 230VAC indicating this is an older motor and the new normal is 120/208 and 240 and the motor will run fine on these voltages. Also that if you connect a ground and that means a good connection with wire extending back to the electrical control box ground connection are attached to the lathe, motor and drum switch there is no shock hazard if double pole disconnect is not used.(All ground connections should be done regardless what voltage and switching method used) Only possible danger is motor burn up and possible fire if for some reason the switched side is grounded putting 120VAC on the motor when wired for 240VAC while the motor is not being used. That is a very remote possibility and if you want to be super safe simply throw the breaker the motor is connected if possible or unplug it if a 240VAC type plug if used.

  14. #34
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    Hey guys, sorry I took so long to respond. So Iíve uploaded some pictures, hopefully of better quality. The colored wires on the switch correspond to the wires coming out of the motor. I removed the plate from the motor with the male prongs (sorry I donít know what itís called) just to get a better understanding of whatís going on. I went off the diagram posted in post 14. I had the white, black and orange under a wire nut and had yellow blue and red going up to the switch. I plugged it into a 15 amp outlet. Sorry for my lack of understanding again.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 98c4dddb-c311-43f7-90f1-083e384f75d2.jpg   f6aba4ee-b239-437f-b9f0-b6919370fdcb.jpg   913d2389-2a02-42e3-97ca-5fb099ebb120.jpg   9357dad7-0592-453f-9bb8-b66d1efbcf10.jpg  

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    If you wired it per post 14, it was set up for 230V. Did you run it on 115V or 230V? You said a "15A circuit", but that says nothing of the voltage.

    If run on 115V when wired for 230V, it would be expected to do what you saw, and it would have seemed weak.. Everything would be working OK, but would have severely low volts, so the motor would draw more current for a given load than it should have, and would eventually overheat. "Probably" OK, especially if it shows no blackened wiring, and does not stink of burned varnish.

    If you ran it on 230V, then it is questionable as to just what happened.

    I do not think that the start circuit remained connected, because I would expect that to fail or produce smoke much sooner than an hour.

    When you observed that it was "hot", was it just a bit uncomfortably hot, or was it way too hot to touch? I know that is a bit subjective, but most folks with experience in mechanical things can tell the difference between "hot" and "really freakin hot".

    Motors are OK with being hot, the windings of the motor are commonly able to be pretty much literally "boiling hot" under rated load, although the case of the motor is normally quite a bit cooler due to the fan cooling.

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    You said slight smoke and it was hot after 30 minutes. Was that 30 minutes of continuous running or were you operating the lathe for 30 minutes turning the lathe on and off assuming the drum switch is used somewhat like a clutch to start and stop the spindle. Are you sure you connected to 240VAC as JST said you mentioned 15Amps not voltage. When operating the lathe did you notice any speed changes, possibly operating at 120VAC the motor was very weak and any load could drop RPM below Centrifugal start switch speed. Another problem with running the motor on 120VAC (being wired for 240VAC.what ever the load on the motor supplied by the lathe will lower motor RPM quite a bit so your cooling fan is running slower. Although I'm asking questions about 120VAC operation though wired for 240VAC I don't think the motor will start wired that way being connected to the lathe since the motor start will now be operating at 60VAC. I see a Red wire in the photo, hard to tell where it comes from, is it coming out of the motor winding. A few connections in your photos are hard to make out. Can you possibly describe with more detail like you mentioned "I had White, Black and Orange under a wire nut" but also add from where though I assume the motor coils. Red from where? Blue from where? Yellow I assume from the motor coils. You removed the terminal strip, What is still connected to that strip if anything? However since you did opt for the connection in 14 and not switch both sides of the 240VAC line I would suggest you wire it as I mentioned in 2 so that will will do as the Diagram stated and reversed the connection of Red and Black and not have to investigate wiring circuitry or make alterations.


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