Need help wiring in new Radial Arm Drill Press

outdoort · Sep 10, 2018

Hi guys, i aquired this radial arm drill press a few months ago and im trying to wire it up to my shop power. The drill was wired 220v 3phase and i just got done re wiring the motor for 460v 3 phase.
My question is that i have this start/stop switch that is integrated into the machine with a sort of relay box and i looks to be 220v only. Ill attach photos, but im not too farmiliar with the operation/purpose of this box even is besides the start/ stop switch operation.

I know the power line connections are at the top of the box and if i hook up my 480v power to it will i fry the start/ stop switch and this relay box??????

Thanks so much. This will be a big hassle if i need a new relay box but if so, can u point me toward what i need to buy? Thanks

outdoort · Sep 10, 2018

Oh i guess i should add that i already ran this machine a couple months ago on my current 480v power. I had thought that the machine was wired for high voltage, but turned out the machine was wired for low voltage after i blew a fuse in my disconnect switch. Stupid mistake yes. But it was only running for less than a minute just to raise the arm before the fuse blew. The start stop switch worked just like it should and i didnt have any problems at all. Im assuming the fuse blew because of the excess amperage being pulled due to the motor being incorrectly wired for low voltage.

So, i guess i know the start stop switch works at least for one or two starts and stops, but i dont want to ruin anything here. Does this start stop switch have overload protection???? Dont want that to fail because im running 480v and not 220v.

greggv · Sep 10, 2018

I would think for safety's sake, you'd want a control power transformer from your line voltage to 24vdc, to power the controls. You would have to replace the contactor coils with 24 volt coils. I'm not wild about hi voltage for control power.

rickseeman · Sep 10, 2018

If you look around for a good electrician it will be a big help to you. Normally you will need smaller fuses, it looks like the coil is 220 so you will need a 440 coil. It appears this machine was built before the push to drop the control voltage to 110v so you probably won't have a transformer to change. You will need different heaters. There are probably surplus electrical stores in your area to get what you need. Would be a nice time to update the electrics if you wanted to.

Bill D · Sep 10, 2018

Yes you have overload protection. It is a relay switch and to the right is overload section. The heater coils need to be replaced with ones for the new voltage. If you are going up the amps will be reduced to one half.
It will work with the existing heaters but they will never trip to save the motor or wiring. Try it that way to check the controls if you want.
The heaters are inside the little boxes with vent holes. I only see two there should be three.
It may be cheaper to buy a complete motor contactor-overload on the bay then to buy the new coil and three heaters. That way you can choose what control voltage you like.
Bill D.

outdoort · Sep 11, 2018

well thanks for the responses so far. I ordered a 1a11 coil and two n27 heaters off ebay. New old stock lol. Hoping it all works when i change the parts out. Randy at allen bradley/rockwell tech support was a great help!

DDoug · Sep 11, 2018

Some drill press's I have been around have a fwd & rev push buttons.

If you need to get a whole new starter, a reversing one might help.

Bill D · Sep 11, 2018

How much did the coil and heaters cost?
I do not think that only two heaters on three phase will meet modern codes. Not an issue in a home shop with no employees.
Bil lD.

Hobby Shop · Sep 12, 2018

I started down a similar road. My RD is wired 440 and my shop is 220. I wired in a transformer and haven’t looked back. Sometimes it’s easier and faster to spend $200 on parts and be done with it.

outdoort · Sep 14, 2018

Just got the heaters and coils in usps today. Going to install them tomorrow and hopefully test run this machine. The coils, were 10 dollars each including shipping via ebay. They were brand new old stock and look like it lol (the box is pretty old looking. Probably from the 70s or earlier. ) The selelr on ebay had 2 total, so I might as well buy both for 20 shipped. I found 3 new old stock n 27 heaters on ebay for I think $20 shipped also... maybe even less. So with a bit of searching, I got these parts cheap. Hoping it works out for me and there aren't any problems changing these parts over.

I'm wondering what clutch compartment oil I should use. The manual with this 1946 Western drill says to use: straight mineral oil with a viscosity Saybolt Universal 200-300 seconds at 100F. ?????? What oil is this???? Where do I find it??? Anything equivalent?????

Thanks Guys!!

outdoort · Sep 14, 2018

As u can see, the previous owner wrote down sae 30 motor oil for the clutch case. He seemed pretty smart when i met him. 94 years old I think he said.

If its 30 weight motor oil, what brand and type???? Detergent or just straight 30 weight?

Thanks

sfriedberg · Sep 14, 2018

You are overthinking this.

If you are buying motor oil for your machine tools, non-detergent straight 30 is preferred, but any reputable brand is OK. On the other hand, if you are buying machine oil for your machine tools, any reputable brand of "gear" or "turbine" or "circulating" oil with an ISO 46 viscosity will be just fine. E.g., Mobil DTE Medium, ChemArrow ArrowLube 603, Castrol Hyspin R&O 46, Chevron GST 46, Dodge Deolube 225, Exxon NUTO H 46, FarWest Hydraulic 4225 (Med-Light), Shell Turbo T 46, Texaco Rando 46, "76" MP R&O 46, or any other good quality, rust&oxidation-protected ISO 46 machine oil. You could probably even fill your gearbox with ISO 46 viscosity hydraulic fluid from a good brand and not do any harm. In fact, some of those choices are marketed as hydraulic fluid.

Actually, I think your smart old guy didn't translate 200-300 SUS at 100F quite right. That is more like SAE 20 than SAE 30. (Notice: no trailing W on 20 and 30.) But it's unlikely to make a critical difference. You might see a slight amount more heat from the gearbox with the heavier oil.

outdoort · Sep 15, 2018

Okay thanks man. Napa didnt have straight 20 weight except in 5gal. So i bought some 30 weight. Thanks for the heads up on the conversion actually being 20 weight tho. Is there a chart or something u referenced?

sfriedberg · Sep 15, 2018

outdoort said:
Thanks for the heads up on the conversion actually being 20 weight tho. Is there a chart or something u referenced?

There are many! Here is one. Here is another.

Reading the charts helps if you know a little about how this is supposed to work. Royal Purple has a very nice looking chart, but the draftsman reversed the labels for SUS@100F and SUS@210F, which would give you very bad results if you didn't spot the error! You also need to understand that SAE gear oils and SAE crankcase oils are on completely different scales, so their numbers don't compare.

outdoort · Jan 22, 2019

I want to add to this thread another question i have. The operation manual states that the gear box at the top of the column takes the same type oil that the clutch gearbox takes, a sae 30 non detergent. You can read this in the manual page i posted above.

As u can see in the manual, the previous owner wrote down that sae 140 should be used for the column gearbox. This is not what the manual states. But. I have a letter from the chief engeneer that wrote to the previous owner in 1970 and the chief engeneer states to use :
Sae 140 for the column gearbox
Sae 30 for both the clutch and main speed gearboxes

I just drained this column gearbox and it def had some thick oil in it. It houses the gears for raising and lowering the head on the column, and also drives the shaft that gives power to the head. The motor turns at 1150 rpm so that means the worm gear im about to post a photo of also turns at the same speed.

This oil also has to splash lubricate the bearings so idk what kind of oil do i use?

outdoort · Jan 22, 2019

Another interesting point is that the manual says to grease the two gears in front (first photo) but it almost looks like oil from the main box (second photo) seeps in there trough the bearing. It has the same oil in both so maybe the previus owner just didnt pack it with grease like he should have?????

Or just use oil in there cuz it may seep in from the other case anyway????

sfriedberg · Jan 22, 2019

We can't really second guess the "chief engineer" for you. You could just stick with the instructions, as already written out for you, and be very happy.

If you want a bit more flexibility, gearboxes generally do want gear oil, which has different sorts of additives than motor oil. The precise viscosity probably is not critical in this application, but don't throw your SAE 30 motor oil in there. If you refer to the viscosity charts previously linked, you could probably go SAE 140 or SAE 90 gear oil, or ISO 460, ISO 320 or ISO 220 gear oil, or AGMA 7, AGMA 6 or AGMA 5 gear oil. The key constraint is "gear" or "extreme pressure" oil, not motor oil. "Non-detergent" probably goes without saying for "gear" oil, so you may not find it written on the container.

There could be a bunch of reasons to grease the miter gears, as instructed. For one, the level of oil in the wormgear housing might not be reliably high enough or splashy enough to provide sufficient lubrication through the shaft bearing to the miter gears. For another, unless there's a gasket on the miter gear housing cover, having a bunch of oil in there is a guaranteed drooly leak around the cover.

outdoort · Jan 22, 2019

Sfriedburg. Ya as long as i dont end up with damaged or badly worn hears over oil viscosity then im okay. It sounds like i may not see a bit of difference in longevity going sae 30 vs sae 140? Or vise versa?? Im almost figuring the chief engeneer just made a simple mistake in his letter because the little oil filler spring cap is just plain too small to make any sensse filling with thick ass 140 weight oil in that column gearbox. Less likely for a manual typo.

Thanks for the suggestion on gear oil vs motor non detergent. I would have just put that in. My local auto parts store doesnt have gear oil like were talking in straigh sae. What brand do u suggest i can get online or special order???

Thanks for ur time posting to answer these questions for me.

sfriedberg · Jan 22, 2019

outdoort said:
My local auto parts store doesnt have gear oil like were talking in straigh sae. What brand do u suggest i can get online or special order???

Try a local farm supply store. If you were in the Midwest, I'd suggest Menards or Farm&Fleet, but I don't think those stores are in Pennsylvania. Out here, maybe Coastal Farm & Ranch, although my local store is more into lifestyle stuff than tractor consumables.

If no such thing exists within a convenient drive, talk to a local diesel/heavy equipment repair place (or dealer) and see if they'll sell you a gallon jug full. Or visit a truck stop, one with more than just gas pumps. Actually, you can probably drop by any auto repair place, not just heavy equipment repair. They can suggest where to buy locally even if they won't sell you a gallon direct.

Need help wiring in new Radial Arm Drill Press

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