Phase-A-Matic rotary converter randomly starts in different direction - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    They have been using putty to balance rotors for something like 20+ years. Sloppy.
    Well its only a f**king cheap-seats Baldor? I did say "practical joke? What did yah expect?

    Get that crap outta there, bugger rumbles like a Diesel?

    Then he'll see why he should quit wasting everybody's time, his own at the head of the list, start over with a decent idler.... and all the rest!

    You'd have to understand "pragmatic" gold rather than "Phase-a-Matic" trash?

    Kinda neat the damn saw don't run bass-ackwards half the time, too.. but there yah have it.

    "Goals". That WAS the one, yah? Electrical masturbation with a cast of thousands was NOT on the list.

    "Get to the END!"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob-J-H View Post
    Phase-a-matic uses the high resistance rotor method, That is why there is only run caps.
    Aha! Now it makes it clear! So those are custom made 3-phase motors with a start winding for a single phase operation/start?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    They have been using putty to balance rotors for something like 20+ years. Sloppy.

    Instead, I run either a 12-24 or 1-4-20 not on those aluminium studs. Then screw on different thickness nuts. Usually I use full and half width nuts.
    But I am only doing balance operation on V-blocks. I spend enough time with it to get the best possible result.
    The official method is to load washers on the stud until it balances, then peen over the end to hold them. If balance changes over time, there is a different problem.....

    Both methods work fine.

    I do not like the putty method at all. Epoxy can be used and is a bit better, at least it will stay in place well.

    We gonna get those measurements I asked about?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JST View Post
    The official method is to load washers on the stud until it balances, then peen over the end to hold them. If balance changes over time, there is a different problem.....

    Both methods work fine.

    I do not like the putty method at all. Epoxy can be used and is a bit better, at least it will stay in place well.

    We gonna get those measurements I asked about?
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelP View Post
    Aha! Now it makes it clear! So those are custom made 3-phase motors with a start winding for a single phase operation/start?
    There is no start winding, doesn't need it.

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    Umm...
    Putty as a balance weight is perfectly ok in a small rotor, so long as it's a quick setting styrene/epoxy/whatever type. Not very well integrated with a production line, automated two plane balancing setup though.

    Bleed resistors on a capacitor across a motor winding are only needed where idiots might remove covers, to diagnose faults, and not short any capacitors before toching as a amtter of course.

    "High resistance" rotors usually have deep rotor slots so that most of the squirrel cage rotor bar is under the surface of the iron rotor. This increases the impedance of the rotor windings at higher slip frequences while keeping a low impedance at normal running frequencies. Wound rotor motors can use different methods, but not in sub-megaWatt sorts of sizes.

    It's still looking like a dubious connection between the 'motor' and the capacitors OR the capacitors connected across the line rather than connected between the line and the other two phases of the system.

  6. Likes TDegenhart, JST, neilho liked this post
  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Bleed resistors on a capacitor across a motor winding are only needed where idiots might remove covers, to diagnose faults, and not short any capacitors before toching as a amtter of course.
    Now.. don't even TRY to tell me the world has run short of that very flavour of Idiots.. I'll start forwarding the US backorders to the UK.

    Mind.. way things are going septic side "funny papers", if such orders get FILLED, we could be improving the average IQ of two great nations in one go just off the back of replacing a legion of village idiots as were sent-off to the Yew Ass Congress.

    The fear is that Perfidious Albion would cheat by sending SUCCESSFUL Members of Parliament in trade for US village idiots, and the Septics would be f***ed again!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rand View Post
    Umm...
    Putty as a balance weight is perfectly ok in a small rotor, so long as it's a quick setting styrene/epoxy/whatever type. Not very well integrated with a production line, automated two plane balancing setup though.

    Bleed resistors on a capacitor across a motor winding are only needed where idiots might remove covers, to diagnose faults, and not short any capacitors before toching as a amtter of course.

    "High resistance" rotors usually have deep rotor slots so that most of the squirrel cage rotor bar is under the surface of the iron rotor. This increases the impedance of the rotor windings at higher slip frequences while keeping a low impedance at normal running frequencies. Wound rotor motors can use different methods, but not in sub-megaWatt sorts of sizes.

    It's still looking like a dubious connection between the 'motor' and the capacitors OR the capacitors connected across the line rather than connected between the line and the other two phases of the system.
    Plumber's epoxy is reasonable. stiff putty, will not drip off, and you can easily stick on a bit more, or pull off a bit. Usually hardens fairly quickly, good enough for batch processing special orders.

    My Arco has a double cage.... fat bars buried, and thin ones in slots. His might be that, or a "deep bar" type with large but narrow bars that go deep, similar result.

    Yeah, all it would take is one wire to the wrong place and the caps would be across the incoming line.....

  9. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by jariou View Post
    And the bank of capacitors:
    Attachment 288508
    Measure the capacitors individually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Now.. don't even TRY to tell me the world has run short of that very flavour of Idiots.. I'll start forwarding the US backorders to the UK.

    Mind.. way things are going septic side "funny papers", if such orders get FILLED, we could be improving the average IQ of two great nations in one go just off the back of replacing a legion of village idiots as were sent-off to the Yew Ass Congress.

    The fear is that Perfidious Albion would cheat by sending SUCCESSFUL Members of Parliament in trade for US village idiots, and the Septics would be f***ed again!

    well you got to admit though that bleed resistors would be effective in hiding the information needed to diagnose the fault in the first place.. which sounds like an intermittent connection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johansen View Post
    well you got to admit though that bleed resistors would be effective in hiding the information needed to diagnose the fault in the first place.. which sounds like an intermittent connection.
    LOL! Hard to defy "intermittent" at sumthin', yes. "Taken as stipulated?" "Chaotically biting the owner in the ass", so to speak?

    What is most effective at "hiding.." "...the fault in the first place" is a two-tone 'loominum and red label.

    Mind there's a broad HINT of feather-merchant'ism.

    It does say "Phase-a-Matic" on it.

    Right in front of God and sorrybody!

    Each of us were to bill our assistance at nought but min-wage, it is already one curious-costly RPC, and still don't even work reliably.

    The GOOD news? Yah don't have to go as far as China to find marginal products.
    'Muricans are still perfectly capable of screwing ourselves.


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    Jariou,

    Any updates? It would be very interesting to see how the puzzle was solved.

  13. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelP View Post
    Jariou,

    Any updates? It would be very interesting to see how the puzzle was solved.

    Well, I put the converter back together and yesterday, I rechecked all the connections and found my problem. I thought that I had wired the manufactured leg to the red wire of the converter's tail but I had wired it to the the black wire.

    As I said at the beginning, I was confident I knew how to wire the whole thing. I did, but I made the mistake of assuming rather than double checking.

    So I owe you all a shameful apology along with many thanks to all of you who tried to help me out.

    Thanks to all, I promised to be better next time! ;-)

    Jacques

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    Quote Originally Posted by jariou View Post
    owe you all a shameful apology
    No fear. "Apology" is built-in.

    "Payback", y'see ... is having to run a third-rate RPC for the next many years!

    And that's a shame.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jariou View Post
    .....

    So I owe you all a shameful apology along with many thanks to all of you who tried to help me out.

    Thanks to all, I promised to be better next time! ;-)

    Jacques
    If I had to tell you the dumb shit stuff I have done over my life so far, that I knew better than....well, I would not want to..... just leave it there!

    If you have never messed up, then you have never tried anything....

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    Quote Originally Posted by JST View Post
    If I had to tell you the dumb shit stuff I have done over my life so far, that I knew better than....well, I would not want to..... just leave it there!
    The Hell we will!



    But yer YOUNG yet, so .. "still learning and growing", yah?

    Take heart!

    The first hundred years are ...







    .... the EASIEST!


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    This might sound funny but call "American Rotary" ,,,,,,, they were a big help to me a few years ago when I was trying to fix a rotary that was made by someone else and I was told there happy to help out on other brands ,,, After there GREAT support I ended up buying a 75 HP rotary from them …..
    Bottom line is I support company's that support me ,,

  19. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by D.D.Machine View Post
    This might sound funny but call "American Rotary" ,,,,,,, they were a big help to me a few years ago when I was trying to fix a rotary that was made by someone else and I was told there happy to help out on other brands ,,, After there GREAT support I ended up buying a 75 HP rotary from them …..
    Bottom line is I support company's that support me ,,
    Wise folks. Not alone. Goodwill and good reputation is priceless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jariou View Post
    Well, I put the converter back together and yesterday, I rechecked all the connections and found my problem. I thought that I had wired the manufactured leg to the red wire of the converter's tail but I had wired it to the the black wire.

    As I said at the beginning, I was confident I knew how to wire the whole thing. I did, but I made the mistake of assuming rather than double checking.

    So I owe you all a shameful apology along with many thanks to all of you who tried to help me out.

    Thanks to all, I promised to be better next time! ;-)

    Jacques
    Thank you for the update.

    I'm trying to visualize the schematics where an improper hard wiring would produce such an unusual behavior, and I still cannot. Anybody cares to draw the schematic diagram?

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    Thanks guys for not being too rough on me.

    I wish I understood what exactly was going on there, how that wrong wiring caused that specific effect. But that's not really necessary. It would be "nice to know", but at this point I'm just happy that I'm able to move forward.

    Thanks again to all.

    Jacques

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    So the capacitors were across the power company phases (not doing anything useful for this project).
    The black lead was flapping in the breeze with the phase rotation determined by which ever rotation the Pony started.

    It's the little things that getcha!

    Glad you are running now.

    Bill


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