Allen Bradley motor starter 220V to 440V

[TFPace]

I have bought a press that has an​ Allen Bradley motor starter. It previously ran on 220V 3 phase. I'm needing to run 440V. I'm not having any success on finding how to switch voltages.

Your help is appreciated.

Thanks,

Tom

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[TDegenhart]

To change the voltage, you will need to change the taps on the control power transformer feeding the AB coil, change the heaters to the now lower motor current. Most likely all of the other devices are driven from the same control transformer, but you need to check. Reconnect the motor for 460. That's about it.

Tom

 

[Modelman]

If it's old enough, it likely doesn't have a control transformer... lots of old A-B starters with 230V coils that ran on line power. Sounds like you need to add a control transformer; might as well buy a new supportable starter and match the X former to the coil voltage.

Dennis

 

[Danny VanVoorn]

If it's old enough, it likely doesn't have a control transformer... lots of old A-B starters with 230V coils that ran on line power. Sounds like you need to add a control transformer; might as well buy a new supportable starter and match the X former to the coil voltage.

Dennis

The picture shows a 120Volt coil so if was running on 220Volt obvious it has a transformer? Tom has it; change the motor wires for the higher voltage and the transformer connections to put 120 Volts off 440Volts and it should start right up. If you want the motor overload protection (Not required to run but I recommend this also) you will have to install the right heaters for the lower full load amperage.
Dan

 

[rons]

Be careful about those bare wires from terminals 1 & 3. Was that original?

 

[TFPace]

Be careful about those bare wires from terminals 1 & 3. Was that original?

Ron,

I'm assuming it is original. You're referring to the three solid heavy copper "eye" hooks?
Ron, I did find that odd. I'm not an electrician but why the center wire is insulated and 1 and 3 aren't is a puzzle? I'm hoping they are tinned copper too?

This photo was made after we disconnected the press from the previous location.

Thanks,

Tom

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[rons]

The two wires, left and right of the black one. Jesus, on ebay the pictures look the same as yours. They wire them that way. Something that makes me cringe.

 

[TFPace]

The two wires, left and right of the black one. Jesus, on ebay the pictures look the same as yours. They wire them that way. Something that makes me cringe.

I spotted those on eBay too.
I don't know why Allen Bradley insulated #2 and left 1 and 3 bare?

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[ca45acp]

Hi can you tell me if there is another 120v pigtail on the machine? Or another control panel maybe with a transformer? Upper right corner shows a KO with white/black/red i cant make out how it patches in to the terminal board. Also take a picture of the cube relays to the right to check the control power specs.

Consider upgrade that starter with one that has a solid state overload. There are still beefy sqaure D starters that have nice contact points available. I go to a shop called MagTrol. The upgrade has no bare wires or bare lugs. No heaters, just turn a dial and some dip switches. Also has a single trip reset point.

The control line is likely fed through that single lone fuse. And that's where the step down transformer would go if it needs one it would have a piggy backed fuse on it. Big question but do you have a schematic?

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[TDegenhart]

Can't tell much more than I have said, the picture doesn't show much more than the starter. If this is on a press, there most likely is another cabinet that has relays and such for the safety interlocking required for presses. That is where the CPT is most likely found, although it could be a separate transformer all by its self. More pictures of the complete machine would help.

Other than what I said as to changing the wiring for the higher voltage, I would not disturb anything else. The 709 is a very rugged and long life starter. Take the front cover off and you will likely see only a few black spots on the contacts. When that starter was made there was a HUGE amount of silver used. Coils and heaters for that starter and the 500 series are among the most widely available.

Tom

 

[Ohio Mike]

Very common to have a decal inside the door with a table that shows the overload part numbers anything in yours? You're probably only going to find them on eBay or some other surplus supply house. As noted above its worth considering just replacing the whole unit with something modern. I always tell people just because it was hooked up before doesn't mean it was done correctly! My slotter came out of a large commercial shop (one that should know better) and the neutral for the 120v control was bonded to the ground in the case. In any shop worth spit that's a lockout tagout butt chewing violation.

 

[Modelman]

The picture shows a 120Volt coil so if was running on 220Volt obvious it has a transformer?...

There were pictures? They are not showing for me... Never mind...

Dennis

 

[TFPace]

Hi can you tell me if there is another 120v pigtail on the machine? Or another control panel maybe with a transformer? Upper right corner shows a KO with white/black/red i cant make out how it patches in to the terminal board. Also take a picture of the cube relays to the right to check the control power specs.

Consider upgrade that starter with one that has a solid state overload. There are still beefy sqaure D starters that have nice contact points available. I go to a shop called MagTrol. The upgrade has no bare wires or bare lugs. No heaters, just turn a dial and some dip switches. Also has a single trip reset point.

The control line is likely fed through that single lone fuse. And that's where the step down transformer would go if it needs one it would have a piggy backed fuse on it. Big question but do you have a schematic?

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ca45acp,

The schematic is proving to be a challenge.

Here are some more photos.

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[TFPace]

Can't tell much more than I have said, the picture doesn't show much more than the starter. If this is on a press, there most likely is another cabinet that has relays and such for the safety interlocking required for presses. That is where the CPT is most likely found, although it could be a separate transformer all by its self. More pictures of the complete machine would help.

Other than what I said as to changing the wiring for the higher voltage, I would not disturb anything else. The 709 is a very rugged and long life starter. Take the front cover off and you will likely see only a few black spots on the contacts. When that starter was made there was a HUGE amount of silver used. Coils and heaters for that starter and the 500 series are among the most widely available.

Tom

Tom and all,

This press is shop built and the control panel that everyone is seeing is it in total.
Tom, since this press operated off of 220V 3 phase the 110V coil was powered off of this service as you have already stated. Hence that explains why I have no CPT.

 

[TFPace]

I failed to include this pic of this contactor. I think that's the proper name. Here's where the 110V is coming from I think?

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[ca45acp]

ca45acp,

The schematic is proving to be a challenge.

Here are some more photos.

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That schematic reads that your control circuit is 120v with ground as neutral. So a the transformer will need to be installed as everyone stated. A fused hammond 50va should do it. You will just need to intercept the L1 and common as seen on the schematic and land on the transformer secondary and then feed the primary with an additional hot leg.

Also do you have a picture of the motor plate to help you size the heaters if you are going to use this starter?

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[TDegenhart]

Nope. That's and auxiliary contact, a switch that is commonly used as a holding switch (interlock).

Tom

Edit: The post with the circuit diagrams was posted as I was typing. Here are my comments.

The drawing shows that the original configuration was at line voltage, including the starter. The ice cube relays appear to be 240 volt, be its not real clear. There is another cabinet containing the R1 and R2 relays. Its not clear. Normal industrial practice is that wiring leaving the control cabinet is 120 or lower. It is also normal practice NOT to have two different control voltages in the same cabinet.

Thirdly, a 50VA transformer is too small for a size three. 250VA is the normal size.

Tom:-

 

[TFPace]

That schematic reads that your control circuit is 120v with ground as neutral. So a the transformer will need to be installed as everyone stated. A fused hammond 50va should do it. You will just need to intercept the L1 and common as seen on the schematic and land on the transformer secondary and then feed the primary with an additional hot leg.

Also do you have a picture of the motor plate to help you size the heaters if you are going to use this starter?

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FL is 26A

Here's the link to the heater chart.

http://www.southlandelectrical.com/AllenBradlyHeaterTables.asp?url=IND

How's N39 look ?

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[ca45acp]

Yes you're dead on with the N39 but if this motor operates under extreme load in to its service factor and start to trip you may need to bump to a N40. 26 fla x 1.15sf = 29.9amps but you won't know until you clamp a meter to check all three legs.

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[SAF]

Converting a AB Size 3 Starter Panel from 240V to 480V operation

Your older 709 starter can use the newer style heaters designed for the 509 series as well. They are listed as W's instead of the older N's. Either can be used if you remove the eutectic alloy pawl of the old style units, the newer units have them built into the heater elements. Whatever ones you can find for the best price.

N39
9246 New-No Box, Allen-Bradley N39 Contactor Thermal Overload | eBay

W62
ALLEN-BRADLEY OVERLOAD HEATER ELEMENT W62, WARRANTIED, FREE SHIPPING! | eBay

For a size 3 starter at 26FLA the correct units would be W62 rated at 27.2A from table 150, you should not oversize heaters as suggested earlier, because the table values already incorporate the 1.15 SF into the rating given. If you had a 1.0 SF rated motor the selection size should be reduced by 15%.

You will need to install an external control transformer to derive your 120V control circuit from the 480V supply. A 250VA or larger unit would be advisable as suggested earlier for a size 3 starter with some additional control components. Here's some samples of enclosed units to hang on the exterior of your control cabinet. 3KVA is the next standard size up from 250VA for an enclosed unit.

Acme 3 KVA General Purpose Transformer - Cat # T-2-5313-4S | eBay

ACME T-2-5313-4S General Purpose Transformer Pri 24x28V Sec. 12-24V 3KVA | eBay

SAF Ω