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Powering 12VDC winch on shop electrics

Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Location
Burbank, CA
I would like to power a 12VDC winch for the shop using the shop 240V 3phase circuit. (so single or 3 phase is available to me)

What would be the best approach?

Thanks in advance.

Chuck
Burbank, CA
 
Not to be a smart***, but a car battery and a battery charger. If you're doing large loads at infrequent intervals, a standard battery will do. If you use it 'often', then a deep cycle will survive better. Deriving three-digit-amp power from AC power sources requires big, heavy, expensive transformers and filtering, which will quickly eclipse the cost of a battery and charger. (Unless you run across a great deal somewhere...) I suppose a roll-around auto shop recharger/starter might do it, but you'd have to find quite a deal to beat a good discount store battery cost. I don't think RV battery converters will have the guts. (And as a bonus: a fully-charged 12V battery is good for emergency lighting, burglar alarm power, backup sump-pump power, jump-starting vehicles, etc.)

Grab your clamp-on DC ammeter (discussed in other, previous posts) and your winch, a battery, and your intended load and see how many amps you need -- taking note of spikes on start-up and mid-lift 'jogging'. That number is what your power supply will need to endure.

Taking a little leap here -- are you pulling horizontally, or lifting?
(I presume you read the part of the winch manual that says not to use it for lifting...) If that's the case, you might find a buddy who wants a winch bad enough to buy you a lifting hoist in exchange.

And, I apologize if you've already been down these roads. There may be unstated constraints that mean it's gotta be done as stated, and I can respect that.


Chip

On edit: I suppose a motor-driven alternator would be a cost-effective solution up to about 80 to 120 amps or so...
 
Last edited:
DC for Winch

Chuck,

You didn't mention amps so make sure your set up will handle the winch amps. Here is one way of doing it. Get a 120/240 : 12/24 buck boost single phase transformer to reduce single phase to 12v AC. Wire it as an isolation transformer since you are going from high volts to low volts. From the transformer go to a full bridge rectifier to convert from AC to DC. The rectifier is small and probably will require a heat sink depending on the amps. You should be able to find a rectifier that is good for 35 amps for under $10.

Joe
 
Not to be a smart***, but a car battery and a battery charger.
I'm glad you posted that. I wanted to but didn't because I didn't want flamed. For a heavy drawing 12V winch it's probably the most cost effective solution. For light duty, maybe a portable booster box?

Years ago, commercial slot car tracks used large 12V batteries with chargers for power supplies because they were the (electrically)cleanest/stoutest/cheapest way to go.
 
Not to be a smart***, but a car battery and a battery charger.....

This is certainly the least expensive for a large capacity winch that might draw 200 or 300 amps. It is the solution we use for moving machinery; an 8000 lb Warn winch, 600 ampere hour battery and a 35 amp charger with a ten second 200 amp boost.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

I will go the battery route for now just to get started and maybe the transformer/rectifier route later.

Do I want to keep the battery charger on while I'm using the winch?

Chuck
Burbank, CA
 
Chuck,
A lot of the answers will depend on how much you're pulling/how many amps draw the system has, under load, and how often you use it, and what kind of charger you have. Can you fill us in?

If you have light use, and basically need to keep the battery topped up but not overcharged, then there are some nice little chargers out there that are 'smart', in that they can manage the charge/keep charged functions. (There are proper names for that, but I don't remember them accurately...) Since these chargers are current limited, there should be no problem leaving them on while in use. No matter what, they should only deliver 2 amps, for example. I leave one on my generator all winter, for example. I don't think I'd do that with a less-modern charger. The chargers are about $25 or $30, and have multiple battery-side connectors: lighter plug (careful!), alligator clamps, and rings... all with a little quick-disconnect so you can use it elsewhere without unwiring 'permanent' connections.


Chip
 
....Do I want to keep the battery charger on while I'm using the winch?

Chuck
Burbank, CA

I do and I also use a high amperage charger. My figuring is that auto batteries can happily take a 30 to 60 amp charge to top them up after a very large but brief current draw. That is the treatment they get in a vehicle.
 
Do I want to keep the battery charger on while I'm using the winch?

Hi Chuck!

Nobody's mentioned this yet, but when you shut OFF a high-consumption DC motor, the magnetic field within the motor collapses, and induces a quick voltage spike on the motor leads... like pulling the hot lead off an ignition coil.

The solenoids that operate the motor ALSO induce spikes on the DC leads.

Unfortunately, these spikes can be pretty hard on things like diodes... which is why I'll say "NO"... better to keep the charger disconnected while operating the winch... lest you fry diodes and end up sending AC into the battery.

If you DO decide to keep the charger connected, I recommend changing out the charger's diodes with high-voltage types (like... 1N4007s) to help it survive the spikes a bit.

DK :-)
 
.....Nobody's mentioned this yet, but when you shut OFF a high-consumption DC motor, the magnetic field within the motor collapses, and induces a quick voltage spike on the motor leads...

Doesn't the battery which is of course in parallel with the charger, absorb most if not all of the spike?
 
Hello All

I request your guidance & knowledge on the following issue.

We have a 12V, 10,000 lb Battery Winch, we want to operate the same in our factory using 220 V, 1 Phase Or 380V, 3 Phase power line.

Winch Details
A) Motor - 6.5 Hp / 4.2kW, Series Wound
B) V = 12 V DC
C) I = 65 A (No Load) / 360 A (Max. Load)
D) Battery = 650 CCA (Manufacturer Recommendation)

Questions
A) With the above details, what should be the Rating of the AC to DC Transformer / Rectifier?

B) Is such Transformer / Rectifier available commercially? If available, can you please provide the link?

C) Can you suggest any other alternative winch with 10,000 lb capacity electrically operated (220 V / 380 V) and less than 155 lb weight?

Looking forward to receiving your valued comments and suggestions.

Regards
Getu32
 
My 2 cents... I run a 6,000 pound winch off a lawnmower battery. Works fine for infrequent use. I pull it out of one of my lawn tractors, hook the cables up, use it, put it back.

If I was using it on a shop crane or something, I'd put a battery tray on the crane and stick a boat battery in it. Charge it at the end of the day - if infrequent use, trickle charge.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 
Thanks for all the replies.

I will go the battery route for now just to get started and maybe the transformer/rectifier route later.

Do I want to keep the battery charger on while I'm using the winch?

Chuck
Burbank, CA
I don't think it'd hurt to charge while winching.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 
before posting replies to questions and comments, please note the date at which those comments were posted.

Chuck Evans' posting was in 2009.


Getu32- 'commercially available' in Saudi Arabia isn't something that most of the Practical Machinist board would be able to verify.

Running an automotive DC winch in an industrial environment with 3-phase AC power really only happens when that DC winch is on some sort of electrically-driven mobile equipment (like an electric shop truck with a little boom crane).

Automotive DC winches are designed for occasional extraction of a vehicle, they don't last long under industrial use, and are NOT designed or rated for any sort of overhead lifting. As you noted, the current draw goes from something 'reasonable' to extremely high, and this variation is in direct proportion to load. To run it off of AC mains, you'll need a power supply very similar in size and operation as a MIG welding power supply, with voltage turned down most of the way (they usually START at 16-17vdc, and go up to 34ish)
 
before posting replies to questions and comments, please note the date at which those comments were posted.

Chuck Evans' posting was in 2009.


Getu32- 'commercially available' in Saudi Arabia isn't something that most of the Practical Machinist board would be able to verify.

Running an automotive DC winch in an industrial environment with 3-phase AC power really only happens when that DC winch is on some sort of electrically-driven mobile equipment (like an electric shop truck with a little boom crane).

Automotive DC winches are designed for occasional extraction of a vehicle, they don't last long under industrial use, and are NOT designed or rated for any sort of overhead lifting. As you noted, the current draw goes from something 'reasonable' to extremely high, and this variation is in direct proportion to load. To run it off of AC mains, you'll need a power supply very similar in size and operation as a MIG welding power supply, with voltage turned down most of the way (they usually START at 16-17vdc, and go up to 34ish)
Ah, you got me on the OP date. My excuse is, I have a crack in my phone screen and couldn't see the date... OOPS.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
 
Rectifier: $206
Transformer: $1030

Plus disconnect, lugs, fuses, wiring, enclosure and labor. We're talking 500kcmil copper - $15/ft. at today's retail prices.

Compare against the cost of a battery and charger, or better yet - a 240/415V winch using #12 copper at $0.25/ft retail.
 








 
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