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PSA: Phase Perfect lose capacitor connection, system burn out, WARNING

coffeetek

Aluminum
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
Location
Redmond, WA
Other day while my Speedio was idle I heard a little crack and fizzle and everything shut down. When I went to Phase Perfect PT-355 unit the smoke was coming out of it. I got this delivered less than year ago on 5/3/2018. Professionally installed by licensed electrician.

Anyway I opened up the front door to check and noticed that on the back of the front door there was a burn mark. The electronic board with TAMURA part blew up:
oeH59-MFAKIS5eGjfxnfl2LpTzEB3f4-LukFigZPcuyFfeUsNT8-U4K5DNghlgtm6YrmJElRbnP8dhgjGN8SY3-XuKIvupehUordEbsqnr2ofKeFqQ3ZkhIbXz3laVu5HImYMMiljKYZdWgD1AjSRNjauEyYU3uF-LZp3OurrJTSIJGouGkZKsRze-rMkH-jjgUBNAbJDq3-uVXuLcX-RYqqKKn2dpnHHxdX_JMcARMtvabjXvcfuQmfgS-fpOnsdXbRtTuY8GbEpaGgsxj3nYd_EZ5TOEYoDlZccTztgc-3hnwOfU44u3pGNHuCvChMuww6WlqnlMLmkEoIWH9hBiiv7Tixm804yIn5E_B2HxsaCI3iknlUsNpigv0pybvSKCMFi9-oAjvkLtDsp5fWSgW7KylVuVYaIQ_h78TH-Mwe9hEkgq59qBBsXr959DasjapPzNVxx5Ipjgl6XrY4t4ZTUT6gFDSHBKUCdn6D1LubT0sJG0Iqi0V3LB8TIHpMIcCQMacPTehP9iC_jb0TptdyulfIRIzLuTtcD1Bo7GefWtUvSas9u1P6dSSEHRWkMb9y8_MYR_G4d0DgJrrUeCJfbR3xzYi_p-JkhXDTIpaxMaHeNeV5YKQIX8VeeI2_bjF3IUhPtf6fS7bun3W4o51AAInBR--CVibeq0rT-3zUPEi1flBU_OM8H3igdCIop_rdn66JiPV2rFgOTYgKc2HIbQ=w1000-no


Next day I called Phase Perfect for support and they thought that capacitors were giving out and that's what caused board to blow up. They sent new capacitors and electronics board, I paid for overnight shipping.

Got the parts, replaced the electronics board and proceeded to remove front bracket which holds these boards so I can access capacitors to replace.

What I have found is wires were totally burned out and the leg of capacitors which was bolted to the bar was not tightened properly on one side and on another side it wasn't bolted at all, the nut was found on the floor. Additionally these nuts did not have paint marks that should indicate that they were checked and torqued properly so it seems like someone at the factory got distracted and forgot to tighten them. These are photos I took before I started changing capacitors so I can record how everything was wired up:

b9uDDpQbAYgfxhTgkqeSuTCuoxLJ_tVCyG-jBnb8anUyHZlb7nJ6uZfbAfQiKRTCRktYHOuwax4vTv9WXIrt1FhzRXxi4dAnPlfHDE_kqyUD_s1oMqUwxt-b6eVUc-a3bXJ21nRi_OynPrwTtlS2vXA1Qez0za-UQEmoqpjmN7bVYEPIJ32JigUTkv8EW_OqE19BbIktrjzyWOBXx7EKJ5QeqhOBbQ6xQ0gaBkoJ-_CVFca7IWThYPuk8q6I_KMJVsWzKKJfME-2TE8BpsgYZU_VP21Px1cwZzdP9QVjzIQSj1f0Kkk-HAkV9Ey_GUaJH43mEYWpPdo52R33wI_tKTfEdNJmVx-DwK1wv-Vu2TGbbWiY263fmSnEdryVZgcREBR0FZVFwxfkwzdyu9ShPPLpUcQhC_6O64E-XBuyi6e1m8pdQg89Wbwga0FVCqTE7yaKisLM7YgtuuR66H_X-3hpRHD5t8QyTSHGPSkXA44W18K9hDgsbvtpIKJoCfDAbSnn51b0klaHktAYk91h0VDhAGFujOaRtrr8JlFjpJbZehARgUkzfsbrWA-PPe-0XriEv16nF74svQa-OSZBTXH5ErGfR1hzms6lvqLsrf3i1EV1D0vk2wmJG6aQgSxOzI7329s71-fjsZDZx325StWetVTwHObI3AATo8mY3_-OWRP-xk9uNOtKaEeoXYHPJ1dA5FdW3gTRLQbd4at4bOQeGQ=w1000-no


This one not bolted down:

W8DXIxCccmhVOJuTn99PWCen4WGBI0--0L9PDO8yDGOdEp67x88hw7EtwMNrg_VQDLa6GmyMdRMm9ohyt5TO5KrAO0oMvq8EZJ33hg8WnikwDDNMiTYaEa5c3Z0F_v1054VM67IjUTJHyIhxu3ibUbVd4do9ZQK-lqdDMw-j-gD-e6HTdK96-OOJ4Qyi5lVIQbptkTFauNENrcL5-6sczrK8pdz7yZT2ffizfDb7XcIw33b5jheOIvi5w5o9zH3050Pz3K5jqoW5jWofdnBsrDMr2KMsHX8UUCRYRrA_MfzGk0LX1NEuMhntMxDK6yFhobSlGViHGjpLW7-xxha-YctNeNaEiZXcy35gQQ6MU-Kyq72lbKXpJM_X5c4pUpXrbN_LEWCkppIdcxfCI907HUOepseKJlA5f1OnN9U4vHxUar4SrlbryMUdZXV_msjqZzbn03p3XGQoooHjFqrNzh6wYZ-l5dKC_VITZdGgALywlhcKQpdeaGkwLAjA8D1hTYUoIvvJtl8CauPC01F_lb53cnX4Zq74xG4oqd5CLIUZilKsnr7myacPjDjCUJ3XGEY6DVDOQCQZ6N2DaIGszajBJp3VelZEAbY5S8O6-0CVOerxfG4LJd0-v-FjNqgvVhMRaSPrgY_ACaPusn6yQNrcZjHw_GpkN0lJ_tfxJvl8MWPxaZnbgDJH20xXjPceFl6wpoxDHKCKJirxuZQexPP_hA=w1000-no


I tested all capacitors I took out and they measure as good, I replaced them anyway. Fuse in PT-355 also blew out. Replaced that one as well.

I think its safe to say that fault was lose connection of high voltage leg of capacitor which was arc-ing and heating up due to resistance and finally it burned out taking the system with it.

Got the unit running and to my great fears Phase Perfect took my Brother Speedio S500X1 out as well. I will have tech coming out for service next week and there is no telling what damage is. From my measuring with advice from service folks it looks like at least DC power supply is blown out. I found that fuse which is soldered to the board is blown and I am afraid that damage does not stop there since this was slow-burn, delayed fuse so contactors that open rest of the system to power were likely open when surge happened.

So if you have newer or new Phase Perfect unit I highly recommend checking electrical connections WITH POWER DISCONNECTED of course, especially at least check visually that nuts and bolts are all tight and have paint marks on them.

I will update this thread as I learn more what total for damage is and how Phase Perfect responds once I ask them to cover the repair cost.
 
When my PP took a giant shit on my world, it fried a contactor in my Brother. That was the only damage.
The HAAS's kept going like nothing was wrong.
I can't say the same for the obsolete board in an AC unit, every motion-detector on the property (5 of them)
Every breaker on the property, two ceiling fan controllers, the stereo in the living room, and more I am sure I am forgetting.
Capacitor maintenance in Phase-Perfects is no joke! Do it! Check them! The high-freq noise the units back-feed on to the mains will start fires!
I had three mini fires in my fucking house when my event happened! The fan controllers, and AC board were all on fire!

Bye-the-way: do not expect to get a dime from them for repair costs!
 
When my PP took a giant shit on my world, it fried a contactor in my Brother. That was the only damage.
The HAAS's kept going like nothing was wrong.
I can't say the same for the obsolete board in an AC unit, every motion-detector on the property (10 of them)
Every breaker on the property, two ceiling fan controllers, the stereo in the living room, and more I am sure I am forgetting.
Capacitor maintenance in Phase-Perfects is no joke! Do it! Check them! The high-freq noise the units back-feed on to the mains will start fires!
I had three mini fires in my fucking house when my event happened! The fan controllers, and AC board were all on fire!

Bye-the-way: do not expect to get a dime from them for repair costs!
Can I ask why your running a phase perfect for your house stuff?
I can see running one for 3 phase stuff by why for single phase?
 
Can I ask why your running a phase perfect for your house stuff?
I can see running one for 3 phase stuff by why for single phase?

I'm not. But, when the filter caps take a shit in the PP: all the high-frequency "noise" feeds back to the grid (single-phase).
This is AC, not DC.
 
I'm not. But, when the filter caps take a shit in the PP: all the high-frequency "noise" feeds back to the grid (single-phase).
This is AC, not DC.
Thank you
Thats what I thought just wanted to clarify.

Thats expensive, wonder if there is a way to isolate it from your house.

Kinda funny, I took our machines out of the house garage for this very reason NOT having True 3 phase power many years ago. then in the last year I have had 3 power issues taken out boards power supplies etc on the various machines. (one was last week) any more you cant even get good 3 phase power from SRP.
our Hass and fadal survived them but the fanuc controls on the 3 lathes did not
 
Curious if other users units make a constant buzz? When I installed mine the noise was disconcerting so I called PP to confirm that was supposed to happen. They said it was normal but I was wondering what others experience was.
 
My PT-330 makes a noise like frying bacon or light welding. I looked inside to try to see where the loose connections similar to the OP’s might be. I could not. They are buried.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
My PT-330 makes a noise like frying bacon or light welding. I looked inside to try to see where the loose connections similar to the OP’s might be. I could not. They are buried.

You can check using your smartphone front camera and then looking from bottom underneath front bracket. You should be able to see capacitor connections and whether they have paint marks on them.
 
Curious if other users units make a constant buzz? When I installed mine the noise was disconcerting so I called PP to confirm that was supposed to happen. They said it was normal but I was wondering what others experience was.

The noise is normal AFAIK. Wish I would have known how loud it was before install, I would have put the damn thing outside.
 
I always wanted to upgrade to a phase perfect someday. After reading this I think ill stick with my rotary. Seems like a lot more things to potentially go wrong for small efficiency gains. Thanks for posting.
 
The part that burned appears to be a transformer on a small switch mode power supply. I'm not sure how that would be related to the failure in the large capacitors. Possibly you have two separate events.
 
The part that burned appears to be a transformer on a small switch mode power supply. I'm not sure how that would be related to the failure in the large capacitors. Possibly you have two separate events.

Well, what Phase Perfect support told me is that board will burn out when capacitors give out. My thinking is that once capacitor wires got burned out due to bad connection, this board was next to go.
 
Reading about the PP problems makes me grateful I went with a rotary. I did a 5 HP home built rotary but finally upgraded to a 30 HP commercial. Inrush currents are nasty. Unit is fused with 125 A motor starting fuses and the lights blink even with 300 MCM from the pole. But it works year after year. So far so good. :-)
 
I wouldn't be trying to fix that much damage in it myself, I'd send it back, they can fix it and figure it out or preferably send a new one. That's just scary and too risky.

I'll go inspect both of mine now, lots of stuff is hidden/hard to see.
I'll check into the new bigger capacitors this week even if I just replaced the regular ones a few months ago.
I have a smoke detector right above the units in the utility room and a fire extinguisher and when the cnc's run I usually leave the door open too.

I still get an annoying HF feedback through the power line to the house, pretty sure it's always done it for 10+yrs though. Otherwise my 2 units have been great, but seeing this now makes me worry again.
I was thinking of buying a new PT-380 and having them put the EMI filtering option but at that price(over $12k CAD by the time its here) I'm starting to wonder about other options.
I'd rather not go with a rotary, wasn't happy with my first experience with that system.
I guess the only other choice is off the grid with a 3ph generator or moving to a "real 3ph" location eh?
 
I guess the only other choice is off the grid with a 3ph generator or moving to a "real 3ph" location eh?

use the 3 ph generator as your rpc and it will be a far stiffer 3 phase source. get it close to synchronization with an induction idler motor (belt ratio set so the generator can reach 60hz) and plug it in with some stout resistors in line (2 ohms maybe, so 100 amps max surge current if both are 180 degrees out of phase). use a second relay on a timer to short out the resistors.

the main contractor on the single phase line supplying the whole thing needs to drop out when the power goes out or you're going to have major surge current when it comes back.
 
I've got an American Rotary converter on my Brother. I've been a bit jealous of those with a PP because mine makes an annoying buzzing sound. Its louder than the brother at 10k (non cutting) I was under the impression the PP were quiet.
 








 
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