Recommended options to power Tree 310 3hp CNC mill at home.

Hi folks. First let me state that my electrical knowledge is nill.
I was a machinist for about 5 years but that was over 16 years ago. I ran a Tree 425 then and really liked it. I've always wanted to get back into machining.

I am looking to purchase a Tree 310 for around $3K to put in my Garage. They claim everything works perfectly and the machine is very reliable. They have added an AC Pro Drive and collet closer.
The current owner operates it on 480v but stated it could be rewired to work on 220v. All I would need is a phase converter.
However, they have installed an AC Pro Drive on the spindle which is 480v and I don't think it can just be rewired.

This leaves me thinking my only option is a 220v to 480v transformer and a rotary phase converter. Is this correct?

I've watched videos on building a RPH and priced ones from American Rotary. They recommend their AD7 for a 3hp CNC which is $926. Do I really need this special CNC rated phase converter? It sounds like I could build one for a LOT cheaper BUT I'm worried about the electronics and don't want to turn this into a boat anchor.
Do I need a special transformer or will any 220v to 480v work?
I'm sure this has been covered but the more I read the more confused I get.

Thanks for your help.

Jason312 said:

They have added an AC Pro Drive and collet closer.

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So just what is the AC Pro Drive? A VFD for the spindle motor, or a motherboard in the control?

If it is a VFD, is the varidrive still intact and working? If the varisrive still works, I would use it, and remove the VFD.
VFD's are quite inexpensive these days. You can use a 5HP unit in many cases and run it on single phase, just make sure that the phase loss can be disabled with parameters.

Bill

Thanks for the reply.

I believe it is more of of a VFD. It controls spindle speed and has 5-6 preset speeds. The kit includes the 3hp motor. On acprodrive.com they are about $2500.
The Varidrive was removed. I'm not sure if they still have it. They really talk up how nice the AC Pro Drive is to have.
I'm thinking I need to get a 220v to 480v transformer and a phase converter but I don't know exactly what I need for CNC. Just powering a motor seems simple but powering electronics sounds touchy.

Or option 2...consider a different machine.

What's confusing is that I've came across posts where someone claims to run their 3 phase CNC on single phase power without issues. So I get answers ranging from do nothing to buying a very expensive digital converter.

I can't tell you what you'll have to do to make the spindle drive work but I ran my 310 on a basic 10HP rotary. Identify what two inputs feed the control (computer) and make sure the line outputs from the rotary are wired to the inputs of the control and use the generated leg from the rotary on the third input to the machine. There are three fuses in the control cabinet, you can start there to figure out where things branch off and what they feed and backtrack from there.

What does the data plate say as to what the original voltage was? Was it originally a 230V machine or 480V?

Glad to hear you didn't have any issue on a basic 10HP rotary. American rotary wants about $300 more for their digital CNC version. Sounds like I can just get the basic one if it worked for you.

I don't know if it was originally 220v or 480v. I'll ask for a picture of the data plate tomorrow.

I'm sure $3,000 isn't a steal for a Tree 310 but hopefully it's a decent price. Probably another $500 - $1,000 by the time I get the power figured out.

Would seem easier and more cost effective to just replace the VFD. A single or 3phase input 3 Hp VFD will run around $300 if you just need it for the drive. Could contact AC Pro Drive to see what just a replacement VFD would be as an option.

Update.
I purchased the machine
The person I was talking with was mistaken and it is actually 220v not 480v.
I have the manual for the AC ProDrive which appears to just be a VFD. It gives instructions on wiring it for single or 3 phase. Basically for single phase I just had to disconnect 1 wire.
So now I hope I can just connect my single phase 220v and everything should work.
However, like I mentioned before my electrical knowledge is pretty weak.
What do ya think?

Here's my dilemma. The wiring from my house is the standard Green-Red-Black-White. The wiring in the machine is Green-Red-Black-Blue.
I've been googling this but can't seem to get an answer. Obviously Green is ground. Do I connect Red=Red, Black=Black and White=Blue?

Jason312 said:

Here's my dilemma. The wiring from my house is the standard Green-Red-Black-White. The wiring in the machine is Green-Red-Black-Blue.
I've been googling this but can't seem to get an answer. Obviously Green is ground. Do I connect Red=Red, Black=Black and White=Blue?

Click to expand...

Uh... Yazz, green or green with a yellow trace .. or bare ... is ground or "PE" (protective Earth).

Now then... BLK, WHT (Neutral), RED are commonly 120-0-120 AKA 240 VAC leg-to-leg "split phase". That's the standard SINGLE PHASE last mile/last foot US critter.

BLK-BLU-RED? And on a machine-tool "of a certain age"?

May be 220 VAC all right. But I'd surely expect THREE PHASE!



DO check that out, as noooo.. you do not directly connect those two players.

Need an RPC, Phase-Perfect, or VFD to "mediate", so to speak..

Jason312 said:

Here's my dilemma. The wiring from my house is the standard Green-Red-Black-White. The wiring in the machine is Green-Red-Black-Blue.
I've been googling this but can't seem to get an answer. Obviously Green is ground. Do I connect Red=Red, Black=Black and White=Blue?

Click to expand...

DO NOT connect the BLUE. I assume you are talking about the current wiring to the VFD (assuming an extension cord), an AC Pro Drive. The blue wire is for 3 phase. You only need to connect the red and black for 240 single phase input.
If the machine has lights and any 120 volt accessories, that may require the white neutral wire. But do not connect this to the VFD power input.
You do want the safety ground connected to both the machine (a lug under one of the motor mount bolts) and to the VFD bonding screws provided.

igg

Thanks again for all the help. Here's where I'm at.

The machine was originally 3 phase which I'm sure is why there's a Blue wire in the power s. A VFD (AC Pro Drive) and motor was installed. This can be wired single or three phase. It was wired three phase when I got it and I disconnected a wire (can't remember the color now) per the operator manual to make it run on single phase.
The VFD gets its power from inside the electrical panel somehow. I assumed that other functions of the machine required 220v (not 3 phase). From there it could transform/invert what ever it needed.

I ended up connecting Red - Red, Black - Black, and the White - Blue. I assume the White - Blue does not make it to the VFD since I disconnected that wire.

Everything is powering up and functioning as expected. I hope that means it's done correctly.
Do you think I should go back in and disconnect the White - Blue connection or just leave it since everything is working?

Thanks again.
Jason

Jason312 said:

Thanks again for all the help. Here's where I'm at.

The machine was originally 3 phase which I'm sure is why there's a Blue wire in the power s. A VFD (AC Pro Drive) and motor was installed. This can be wired single or three phase. It was wired three phase when I got it and I disconnected a wire (can't remember the color now) per the operator manual to make it run on single phase.
The VFD gets its power from inside the electrical panel somehow. I assumed that other functions of the machine required 220v (not 3 phase). From there it could transform/invert what ever it needed.

I ended up connecting Red - Red, Black - Black, and the White - Blue. I assume the White - Blue does not make it to the VFD since I disconnected that wire.

Everything is powering up and functioning as expected. I hope that means it's done correctly.
Do you think I should go back in and disconnect the White - Blue connection or just leave it since everything is working?

Thanks again.
Jason

Click to expand...

"Sounds as if".. the entity that originally installed the VFD had already separated-out the 3-P loads (final-drive motor ONLY, most likely) and the 1-P loads (control transformers to operate relay and contactor actuator coils, indicator lamps, task lighting, most likely).

That said, if, in the usual case, the VFD has REPLACED the function of the "heavy" final-drive-motor contactors for-sure, there shouldn't actually BE much else that still needs power not covered by the VFD AND its own indicator and control loops.

Odd-man-out / still open question, is a coolant pump - usually 3-P on industrial machine tools where it exists at all.

1-P pumps work fine, can be had for under $100, new, HVAC-industry "condensate" pumps for half that will do for occasional use of water-soluble coolants, so I just make that switch to new 1-P instead of fussing with 3-P for the small loads they represent on a typical older all-manual lathe, mill - or my Kasto power hacksaw...

If for no other reason than.. 1-P needs but a dirt-common SPST switch to control, 2PST is better for 220-240 VAC.

3-P needs at least a 2PST switch or relay, 3PST "proper".


Meanwhile, back at the "actual" machine as it IS?

As it all just works?

Be happy. Leave it be.

And go address the NEXT needful thing. There'll not be any shortage of those..

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. It sounds like I'm definitely lucky!
They may have separated the loads out as you mentioned. The power initially goes into a 10" x 10" box with 3 fuses and a throw switch. From there it goes into the larger box to another switch that seems to send the power in different directions. I thought it strange that there would be 2 switches in a row. I wonder if the second one was added with the VFD.

There is a 110v plug for the coolant pump. There is also a 110v female plug that hangs out the bottom of the power box to plug it into but I was told they just plugged the pump directly into 110v power and didn't use the power from the box. I'll have to inquire why.

Thank you very much for all your input.
Now as you said on to the next needful thing which in my case is remembering how to program the Dynapath and calculate speeds and feeds

Jason312 said:

Sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. It sounds like I'm definitely lucky!
They may have separated the loads out as you mentioned. The power initially goes into a 10" x 10" box with 3 fuses and a throw switch.

Click to expand...

+1 That one presumably "meets Code" as a "fused disconnect"

From there it goes into the larger box to another switch that seems to send the power in different directions. I thought it strange that there would be 2 switches in a row. I wonder if the second one was added with the VFD.

Click to expand...

Almost certainly so.

There is a 110v plug for the coolant pump. There is also a 110v female plug that hangs out the bottom of the power box to plug it into but I was told they just plugged the pump directly into 110v power and didn't use the power from the box. I'll have to inquire why.

Click to expand...

You may already have under-roof a "power bar" that has its own 10 A or 15 A resettable pushbutton circuit-breaker built-in at one end. If not, it's a good item to add to your arsenal.

Cheap and fast to check with a meter that it is 120-130 VAC, not 220-240 VAC, then use one of those power-bars temporarily "in the line" to make the initial test of coolant pump, worklight, etc. for shorts or over-current draw.

Not a lot of higher-level maths required, splitting paired wires to get a clamp-ammeter onto them, and nothing "terminally bad" should happen.

Now as you said on to the next needful thing which in my case is remembering how to program the Dynapath and calculate speeds and feeds

Click to expand...

A last-check of all lubes and bearings, locks, and threading/feed settings done? Of course!

Above my current pay-grade on the Dynapath!

Good fortune to yah!

Jason312 said:

There is a 110v plug for the coolant pump. There is also a 110v female plug that hangs out the bottom of the power box to plug it into but I was told they just plugged the pump directly into 110v power and didn't use the power from the box. I'll have to inquire why.

Click to expand...

If you want the 110 volt plugs to work, you must connect a neutral wire. As Thermite says, check to make sure it is 120 volts. The power cord that came with the machine, should have been a 5 wire cord for all this to work under 3phase power. As a minimum you need to connect 4 wires, safety ground, neutral, and 2 hots of the 240 power).