Rotary Phase Converter Questions - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    [QUOTE=thermite;3436444]Code ain't keen on that as a "disconnect"

    Obligatory 'boo hoo' about quoting style acknowledged....

    Disconnect = lockout tag out. Having the connector unhooked and visible to the repair person
    is one of the best ways. Not visible? Inexpensive clamp-on lock for the male connector. I never
    did like the chassis mount female twistlocks. Seems like they're always pointing in the wrong direction
    most times.

    Liquidtite is great, it's my go-to for machine wiring. But not to your typical connectors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Code ain't keen on that as a "disconnect"
    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post
    Obligatory 'boo hoo' about quoting style acknowledged....

    Disconnect = lockout tag out. Having the connector unhooked and visible to the repair person
    is one of the best ways. Not visible? Inexpensive clamp-on lock for the male connector.
    The point. Crawl under a bench to git at an outlet 16" off the deck, or place them where yah can see them and walk up and shake hands or see a lock or tag without tripping over shit nor needing K-Y jelly to get TO them?
    I never
    did like the chassis mount female twistlocks. Seems like they're always pointing in the wrong direction
    most times.
    For that, you need a Clinical Psychologist, as to whom is pointing where. Not an electrician.


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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    The way to not get scared is do not read a VFD manual on Halloween.

    Just keep reading it over and over until it sinks in.

    Just pass the two single phase wires on the two outside poles of the switch and leave the middle pole position open. The ground wire is not connected there.

    What is the switch rated for?
    What VFD do you have?

    The three pole switch is rated...

    switch-spec.jpg

    The VFD I have is a TECO L510 I think.

    Here is a shot of the VFD manual that tells you how it should be wired, and the reason I shitcanned the idea of using one for now!

    wiring.jpg

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=jim rozen;3436641]
    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post

    Liquidtite is great, it's my go-to for machine wiring. But not to your typical connectors.
    I like the clean look of that stuff too but I wondered about the ground between the boxes, if present. As wired now it has a metal spiral conduit between the motor and the vintage trip breaker that is mounted on back of lathe. From there the same metal conduit to a previously wall mounted junction box where the heavy gauge rubber shrouded power chord (25' long)is connected and that is terminated with a 4 prong twist lock 30A male plug.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin T View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jim rozen View Post

    I like the clean look of that stuff too but I wondered about the ground between the boxes, if present. As wired now it has a metal spiral conduit between the motor and the vintage trip breaker that is mounted on back of lathe. From there the same metal conduit to a previously wall mounted junction box where the heavy gauge rubber shrouded power chord (25' long)is connected and that is terminated with a 4 prong twist lock 30A male plug.
    That was yet another of klewless Jim Rozen's careless fuck-ups, post 24. Not my quote. Correction above.

    Were rigid conduit is not appropriate, I use "Sealtite" and it DOES have a metal inner liner.

    Even so, one runs a proper Copper protective Earth - and, in my case, what with "Wye" last-leg on the 3-Phase - a Neutral as well.

  6. #26
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    Thanks for any and all feedback guys it really helps add to my knowledge and makes me smarter to talk to electricians who will do some, or most, of the work. I do need to think hard about where to put a female twist plug to power up. Some good ideas here. I am a bit torn about how many extra boxes, switches and the conduit paths because a lot of this will be above the shelves I have behind my lathe and everything that goes there takes away space from the shelves! I am hopeful I can get away with a JB with female 4 prong under the shelves and plug the machine into that. I also am not sure where I want the idler motor. I have a couple of choices most likely down toward the tailstock end.

    Heres the project area.

    left.jpg

    right.jpg

    You can see I have "some" room to mess around but I have a few machinist chests and tooling that are on the ground that I put up when I am done. Is there anything wrong with putting the idler motor under the lathe, toward the tailstock end? I like the liquid tight conduit to the idler motor from the RPC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin T View Post
    Thanks for any and all feedback guys it really helps add to my knowledge and makes me smarter to talk to electricians who will do some, or most, of the work. I do need to think hard about where to put a female twist plug to power up. Some good ideas here. I am a bit torn about how many extra boxes, switches and the conduit paths because a lot of this will be above the shelves I have behind my lathe and everything that goes there takes away space from the shelves! I am hopeful I can get away with a JB with female 4 prong under the shelves and plug the machine into that. I also am not sure where I want the idler motor. I have a couple of choices most likely down toward the tailstock end.

    Heres the project area.

    left.jpg

    right.jpg

    You can see I have "some" room to mess around but I have a few machinist chests and tooling that are on the ground that I put up when I am done. Is there anything wrong with putting the idler motor under the lathe, toward the tailstock end? I like the liquid tight conduit to the idler motor from the RPC.
    Ah.. well. "wire exists". So do chips exist, coolant splash, noise, and shortage of space I have better use for.

    The only thing as needs to be in the workspace is the load center, outlets, and a tiny control switch with a pilot LED or Neon lamp to show what is active or off.

    Lot of us run our RPC in some other room, the attic, basement, or even outdoors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Ah.. well. "wire exists". So do chips exist, coolant splash, noise, and shortage of space I have better use for.

    The only thing as needs to be in the workspace is the load center, outlets, and a tiny control switch with a pilot LED or Neon lamp to show what is active or off.

    Lot of use run our RPC outdoors.
    Noted! Thanks, I was thinking that the tail stock end wont see too much coolant and chips with the 8' bed since I am just a hobbyist but I wanted to hear from those who have gone before for sure!

    My problem is that the stuff I care about or need to work for a good long time is inside the shop/garage because that is a temp and humidity controlled area and everything outside gets destroyed by the humid salt air since I am near the ocean on the windward side of the island! Also we have serious bugs and lizards that love to nest inside of covers and openings of anything outside! I havent seen too many examples of guys who put the idler motor in an enclosure to keep the noise down and motor clean but I have been looking!! I would love to stick it in a vented metal cabinet with some insulation (if needed) but I dont see where guys are doing this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin T View Post
    Noted! Thanks, I was thinking that the tail stock end wont see too much coolant and chips with the 8' bed since I am just a hobbyist but I wanted to hear from those who have gone before for sure!

    My problem is that the stuff I care about or need to work for a good long time is inside the shop/garage because that is a temp and humidity controlled area and everything outside gets destroyed by the humid salt air since I am near the ocean on the windward side of the island! Also we have serious bugs and lizards that love to nest inside of covers and openings of anything outside! I havent seen too many examples of guys who put the idler motor in an enclosure to keep the noise down and motor clean but I have been looking!! I would love to stick it in a vented metal cabinet with some insulation (if needed) but I dont see where guys are doing this.
    Many have done. Size of a doghouse is all it needs. My one is an "open, drip proof" with fan-over. If you used a "TENV" idler, not-even that much. "Totally Enclosed, Non Ventilated" is exactly what it says it is. My HVAC "outside unit" has no extra enclosure. Few do.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by JST View Post
    The motor switch really needs to be rated for the motor HP (for what it controls). That will take care of switching off with locked rotor current flowing, etc. Motor controls are generally HP rated in the US. Avoids many questions and calculations.
    Yes, disconnects are rated by motor hp, that is what I understood he was questioning, but he did not give a rating. I have used 3ph disconnects for 1ph applications, and whether or not it meets code (IDK), it passed inspection. Current home/shop has a 3ph disconnect at meter, feeding 1ph, passed inspection 18 years ago. Codes change, inspectors all read codes differently, what passed before may not pass today. OP, ask your electrician, or the inspector.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin T View Post
    Here is a shot of the VFD manual that tells you how it should be wired, and the reason I shitcanned the idea of using one for now!

    wiring.jpg
    You don't need all that, especially with a little Teco. Forget about the input/output noise filters and the reactor.

    You can build a RPC from scratch underneath all that nice sun. Put this together last May. I choose not to have the plugs pointing straight
    out for obvious reasons. The yellow flip lids are from Woodhead with Hubbell connections, and the stainless box was something I had laying about.
    Originally the front door had a square piece cut out for a clear plastic sheet. I welded in a square piece almost the full
    size of the door and primed it. Next year everything will be DuPont brand ANSI 49 gray.

    dsc_1029.jpg

    On my next stop-over to Tahiti I will check in on you.
    Last edited by rons; 11-01-2019 at 09:24 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    You don't need all that, especially with a little Teco. Forget about the input/output noise filters and the reactor. Feel better now?
    "Felt better" when I kicked the last of the VFD's out the door altogether.

    All my motors are old, so they are happier with RPC, Phase-Perfect, or the Generator. No messing with their wiring or controls needed

    DIY on the DC motored goods was "entertainment" enough.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin T View Post
    .... I do need to think hard about where to put a female twist plug to power up.
    Here's one approach. Receptacle mounted facing down, so the S cord falls from it naturally. Here the converter is in a remote
    location and the wiring is via NM cable from the converter to the receptacles. You can see the two lathes with the drop
    cords heading up into the overhead where the boxes are.

    Granted S cord wiring is a bit of a compromise. Do not use SJ cord as it really does not hold up. I think the stuff in the photo is
    12-4 neoprene S cord, oil resistant.



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