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RPC turn-on tripping a machine shunt trip braeker

specfab

Titanium
Joined
May 28, 2005
Location
AZ
I posted a problem a few days back in CNC forum regarding my issue with a Tree Journeyman 325 not being able to get out of E-Stop mode and power the servos. In doing some further checking, I see that the main power circuit breaker that is mounted in that machine is tripping when I turn on the phase converter to provide shop power for the machines. The machine has been running OK up to now, and I have never seen this behavior previously. I removed the breaker and cycled it by hand, and it reset the orange trip flag immediately when out of the machine. My question is really about whether others have seen this sort of problem occur over time, and whether breakers may get overstressed when presented with whatever surge may come from a rotary phase converter at startup. I keep the Tree machine plugged in to power all the time, so it sees the turn-on every time the converter is started.

This phase converter is a 10HP rated commercial unit that I acquired along with the machine and its tooling, and the Tree had been running off this converter both at the seller's location and in my shop for the last 3-4 years on a fairly limited schedule. My guess is that the converter is 10-15 years old, but that is strictly a guess. I will note that the RPC has occasional start-up issues, and it sometimes takes several tries to get it turned on and producing 3-phase, instead of single-phasing while trying to run the idler motor. The start-up of the RPC sometimes involves the unit jumping a little when I flip the on switch, as though there is a much greater cap discharge than at other times. My theory is that there are either some issues with the motor or some sort of sticky contactor in the converter electrical box; somehow there are different conditions for startup from time to time.

I will also note that the converter output is unbalanced (typical of course) with the two legs passing through at 121V to ground, and the generated leg at something in excess of 200V. It seems to yield leg to leg voltages of 241/241/267. This concerns me somewhat, and I am curious if there is any way to balance the voltages better. As a side note, the Tree controller has a separate power sourcing setup, where it is using only "single-phase" 230V, and that is the 2 legs at 240V as noted above.

Any observations welcome. Be nice;-)
 
The main effect on the power line will be a possible dip in voltage as the motor starts. There might be a transient rise when the start cycle is ended and the start circuit disconnected.

Not knowing anything about the Tree unit, I do not know what it is "looking for", but I suppose it could be tripped if the voltage "seems unstable", or if it drops below some threshold. I'd more likely expect it to just shut down to an idle state, unless the voltage RISES too far.

The output voltage of the idler should not affect the input particularly.

It does look as if the balance" is off, and/or the capacitors used for "balancing" are distributed unsymmetrically.
 
I posted a problem a few days back in CNC forum regarding my issue with a Tree Journeyman 325 not being able to get out of E-Stop mode and power the servos. In doing some further checking, I see that the main power circuit breaker that is mounted in that machine is tripping when I turn on the phase converter to provide shop power for the machines. The machine has been running OK up to now, and I have never seen this behavior previously. I removed the breaker and cycled it by hand, and it reset the orange trip flag immediately when out of the machine. My question is really about whether others have seen this sort of problem occur over time, and whether breakers may get overstressed when presented with whatever surge may come from a rotary phase converter at startup. I keep the Tree machine plugged in to power all the time, so it sees the turn-on every time the converter is started.

Circuit breakers don't last forever.


This phase converter is a 10HP rated commercial unit that I acquired along with the machine and its tooling, and the Tree had been running off this converter both at the seller's location and in my shop for the last 3-4 years on a fairly limited schedule. My guess is that the converter is 10-15 years old, but that is strictly a guess. I will note that the RPC has occasional start-up issues, and it sometimes takes several tries to get it turned on and producing 3-phase, instead of single-phasing while trying to run the idler motor. The start-up of the RPC sometimes involves the unit jumping a little when I flip the on switch, as though there is a much greater cap discharge than at other times. My theory is that there are either some issues with the motor or some sort of sticky contactor in the converter electrical box; somehow there are different conditions for startup from time to time.

Provide circuit diagram of RPC. You RPC is faced with different initial conditions at every start-up. Capacitor voltage, phase of line, orientation of motor rotor.

I will also note that the converter output is unbalanced (typical of course) with the two legs passing through at 121V to ground, and the generated leg at something in excess of 200V. It seems to yield leg to leg voltages of 241/241/267. This concerns me somewhat, and I am curious if there is any way to balance the voltages better. As a side note, the Tree controller has a separate power sourcing setup, where it is using only "single-phase" 230V, and that is the 2 legs at 240V as noted above.

Any observations welcome. Be nice;-)

Providing circuit diagram will identify where you can add balance capacitors.
 








 
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