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  1. #1
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    Default Slowing a machine down.

    Not sure where to post this...
    I have a 10" Dvorak shaper. I would like to slow it down - primarily for setup/test runs on a piece.
    Motor is 1/2 hp 110V 1725 rpm.
    The machine has step pullys but even on slowest speed it is too fast.
    Not much changing it there short of putting about a 20" pully on it.
    Don't want that.
    What should I look for?
    Is there a motor/gear drive that has 2 speeds that would work and isn't too expensive?
    Does anyone make a 2 speed motor- 850/1725 rpm?
    Maybe a VFD of some sort?
    It would need to maintain the torque at slow speed.
    Kinda just scheming/dreaming about it here.
    Slower would be better.

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    Leave motor turned off and turn pulley by hand.

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    If you slow it down too much, it'll stop working properly.

    But, a 1/2 HP motor is a puny thing. It'll have a frame size on the nameplate. Buy another motor that is a 1/2HP 6 pole (1200RPM) and you'll have 1/3 less speed. Then, if you must, get a VFD and slow it down further. If you get a VFD, consider buying a 3/4HP or 1HP motor to compensate for any losses in torque, etc.

    When you're dealing in small HP like this, you have lots of cheap options.

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    I’d make a handle or handwheel to roll it over by hand, that’s what I did with the Hendey I had for a while. The Hendey used the handle off the x axis iirc and would sling it if you forgot and engage the clutch without removing it first.

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    Basically, you want a "creep" function for setup/test - not for regular running at dead-slow?

    As little power as it needs, why not adapt a corded or cordless hand power tool motor to operate a friction pinch roller or "powerable" belt-idler .... or add a socket on the arse-end of the existing motor?

    Similar to hand-pulling, but could be arranged for hands-free and not needing to be in an awkward stance?

    For that matter, many a corded already dual-geared range plus variable-speed hammer-drill motor of any medium size or larger could outright replace that half-horse single-phase motor.

    So could the power-take-off on the 2 HP Hobart-era Kitchenaid variable-speed mixer in my kitchen for nearly fifty years... three houses .....and two marriages... already!

    It just isn't really a "BFD" as powered machine-tools go..


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    What about a momentary ON switch mounted in a dangle that you can place anywhere on the machine for easy reach?

    I'm thinking a small project box with a coiled cord and a neo dot magnet mounted on the back.

    All available, I'm sure, at McMaster-Carr. One stop shopping.

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    Most small shapers have a hand crank or wheel for setting up (motor off). If the OP’s doesn’t have this, I’d rig up a hand crank before futtzing around with different motors etc. kiSS ;-)

    L7

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    I uploaded this video to youtube so I could show the shaper to my BIL.
    This is the slowest speed. I would like to slow it down to about 1/2 this speed. And I didn't mention it earlier but yes - I want it hands free.

    10" Dvorak Shaper - YouTube

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    You've an open motor and countershaft - do it on pulley diameters etc etc easy enough (and cheap with a bit of creativity)

    FYI (If you don't know how - here are the calculators) belt and pulley calculator - Google Search

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    Does your shaper have a clutch?

    I roll mine over by riding the clutch gently.

    A 1/2HP, 3 phase, 2 speed motor should not be impossible to find, but remember that 2 speed motors are physically larger than their single-speed counterparts. You might end up gaining a frame size or two.

    Single phase will be much more difficult to come across except in air-over configuration for condenser fan/blower duty. Many of those are wound for 240V and use impedance taps rather than multiple pole configurations to slow down, which only works for fan loads.

    The old school multiple-winding multispeeds will usually be face mount or base mount TEFC or ODP - whereas impedance-tapped blower motors will almost always have mounting rings/elongated stay bolts and air-over construction for air handling service.

    An example of one you probably don't want: Genteq 3587 1/2 HP Fan & Blower Motor, 1075 RPM, 3 Speed, 115 Volts, 48 Frame | eBay

    And an example of what is probably a "real" dual-winding multispeed motor: BALDOR Single Phase ⅓ HP Motor 2 Speed (1140/1725 RPM) 115VAC Reversible - NICE | eBay

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    Default hand job

    I vote for the leave it off during preliminary set up and use the hand wheel to move it. I have always done it in this manner, safer and you have more control. IMHO

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    Quote Originally Posted by lucky7 View Post
    Most small shapers have a hand crank or wheel for setting up (motor off). If the OP’s doesn’t have this, I’d rig up a hand crank before futtzing around with different motors etc. kiSS ;-)

    L7
    What Doug said. A large wheel, adapted, is a LOT nicer to use than a crank handle.

    One can even leave it permanently affixed and not always even need a swing-open/away safety cover.

    The 12" Sheldon all this just isn't an issue, but OP no gots a Sheldon.

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    The fact that the OP says he needs to maintain torque at low speeds is what caused me to recommend what I did.

    And it implies that hand turning-over and all that won't work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GregSY View Post
    The fact that the OP says he needs to maintain torque at low speeds is what caused me to recommend what I did.

    And it implies that hand turning-over and all that won't work.
    Depends on where he puts the "creep" power into the drivetrain.

    The human arm & hand can't run forever at 1/2 HP. We have to stop now and then to eat, drink, shag, sleep, and piss.

    But short term?

    A human has a great deal more short-term torque than a silly 1/2 HP 1750 RPM 1-P motor! 1.5 ft/lbs to be precise!

    About the mass of a decent New York strip steak.. hung on a mere 1 foot long wrench or ratchet?


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    What you want to look for is a gear motor. They come in all sizes and speeds. You will find plenty on Ebay and the small ones are not that expensive. With the increased torque from the low gearing your 1/2 hp motor can be replaced with a 1/4 hp or less gear motor and you can choose one that will turn at the speed you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superbowl View Post
    What you want to look for is a gear motor. They come in all sizes and speeds. You will find plenty on Ebay and the small ones are not that expensive. With the increased torque from the low gearing your 1/2 hp motor can be replaced with a 1/4 hp or less gear motor and you can choose one that will turn at the speed you want.
    A shaper down to a mere 1/4 HP?

    How about a water-wheel run off the toilet refill hauling a Hay-Budden 300 pound anvil up into the attic on a cable one can wrap around the input shaft.

    Whenever you want to stroke-shape something, just hit the loo, clear your tubes well... and prepare to unwind.

    Note to file: Remember to re-order more of Sami's Boolshit buttons.

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    Thanks.
    I know the other fellows mean to help but we're not quite getting where I want to go.
    Hands free, slower speed, maintain torque, 110v single phase (to keep it in the hobby market) continuous duty?
    Do you know of a 2? 3? speed gear drive set up that would do that?
    I'd start watching searchtempest for something if I knew what to call it.
    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultradog MN View Post
    Thanks.
    I know the other fellows mean to help but we're not quite getting where I want to go.
    Hands free, slower speed, maintain torque, 110v single phase (to keep it in the hobby market) continuous duty?
    Do you know of a 2? 3? speed gear drive set up that would do that?
    I'd start watching searchtempest for something if I knew what to call it.
    Thanks
    If something under my roof has a single-phase motor on it that WORKS?
    I leave it TF alone.

    Otherwise, 3-P or Dee Cee here. "Period."

    Belts, Pilgrim:

    Congress or Chicago Die Casting for light-metal, Maska, Browning, Morse for Cast Iron and steel, covers Vee belt pulleys, sheaves, cone or "step" pulleys.

    I just can't see adding gears for a "machine-tool" AKA toy, with less HP than an ignorant hand-held drill motor, die grinder, toolpost grinder, air-wrench, 2-stroke weed-wacker, or pancake-batter mixer.

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    Transformer, VFD and three phase motor.

    Or try your luck at finding a single phase multispeed.

    Those are the options that fit your bill unless you want to bust out a thousand or two for a nice DC motor and controller as Thermite is so fond of suggesting.

    There were old gear motors back in the day with shifting mechanisms but those aren't too common to come across. Usually specially made for machine tool service on e.g. an old Burke No. 4 mill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    If something under my roof has a single-phase motor on it that WORKS?
    I leave it TF alone.

    Otherwise, 3-P or Dee Cee here. "Period."

    Belts, Pilgrim:

    Congress or Chicago Die Casting for light-metal, Maska, Browning, Morse for Cast Iron and steel, covers Vee belt pulleys, sheaves, cone or "step" pulleys.

    I just can't see adding gears for a "machine-tool" AKA toy, with less HP than an ignorant hand-held drill motor, die grinder, toolpost grinder, air-wrench, 2-stroke weed-wacker, or pancake-batter mixer.

    The machine is flawed. It has too fast, faster and crazy fast speeds.
    Wanting to slow it down by 40% and still have a couple/few speeds.
    There's a couple of ways to do that. I could manufacture a 16" final drive pully to replace the 10" on it now but that is pretty rube goldberg.
    Or slow down the input speed to what already exists.
    A 1/2 hp gear drive of some sort might accomplish that. So might a slower speed motor. Or maybe nothing will accomplish what I want.
    I do hope that asking how to do something isn't gonna piss people off or be an invitation for sarcasm.


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