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Solid State Phase Converters

Brick

Plastic
Joined
Sep 23, 2010
Location
Midwest, USA
I got my lathe and mill delivered (manual Bridgeport with 2j head- 2 horse power and a 3- horse power geared head manual lathe) and I am researching how I will power them up. While looking at a local machine re-building company's web sight, I noticed they sell these solid state phase converters.

Are these things real deal or junk?

Link to said converters;

Phase Converters

Thanks,

Brick
 
I used them while I was a manual shop with no issues. Cheap and worked, but I never did test voltages. I had a Bridgeport knock-off and a 1hp Atlas lathe.
 
Those look like static phase convertors that just use capacitors for phase shifting. As stated in the ad, you won't get full power because the phase shift is not 120 degrees. Further, this type of unit is only useable on a single machine. Its a little misleading to say that these are solid state, that imply's that that are switching power systems which they are not.

H&W is a reputable company, call them and ask them your questions. They will give you an honest answer.

Tom
 
For a few bucks more, you could outfit both machines with a couple VFDs and have a nice range of rpm. You won't regret it.
 
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For a few bucks more, you could outfit both machines with a couple VFDs and have a nice rang of rpm. You won't regret it.

The mill is variable speed and the lathe has 16 speeds, so I should be ok.

H&W is a reputable company, call them and ask them your questions. They will give you an honest answer.

I called and spoke to their electrician. He says they are good, but may be a little slow on the instant reverse for tapping. I am used to my buddies home machine shop that used an older design rotary phase converter. He never had any problems. The guy I bought the machines from tried a static converter and it didn't operate well and burned up. He did give me a schematic of his set up using a rotary system when I purchased his equipment.

Brick
 
The mill is variable speed and the lathe has 16 speeds, so I should be ok.



I called and spoke to their electrician. He says they are good, but may be a little slow on the instant reverse for tapping. I am used to my buddies home machine shop that used an older design rotary phase converter. He never had any problems. The guy I bought the machines from tried a static converter and it didn't operate well and burned up. He did give me a schematic of his set up using a rotary system when I purchased his equipment.

Brick

It's not just the speeds. It's dynamic braking, ramp up, ramp down and most of all (for me anyway) slow and easy or super speedy tapping with instant reverse.
 
I'm gonna agree on the "junk" label. They mostly seem to be 'static converters", which convert nothing, except connecting your motor to single phase, and providing a start circuit. A few have a run capacitor that helps a bit.

A "real" solid state converter would create and provide a third phase using the same methods employed by a VFD. They exist, google "Phase Perfect" for the best known brand (there may be others by now). Those provide power company quality (or better) 3 phase power.

Ok. But you need 3 phase input to them right? So, you still need a phase converter to get from single phase to 3 phase to start with right?

Not necessarily, many below 5HP are rated for single phase input. At 5 HP and above, there are fewer, but some can be derated to a lower power and then accept single phase. It's a matter of the power supply inside the unit.
 
Thanks! Maybe I should have known that. My CNC has 2 phase input, but the Spindle (runs off VFD) is 3 phase.
 
Maybe I should have known that. My CNC has 2 phase input, but the Spindle (runs off VFD) is 3 phase.

You mean single phase. Just because there are two wires it doesn't mean 2 phase.

The two wires have a signal 180 degrees out of phase with each other. When you connect a
load the result is a sine wave with double the peak voltage of either wire.
 
You mean single phase. Just because there are two wires it doesn't mean 2 phase.

The two wires have a signal 180 degrees out of phase with each other. When you connect a
load the result is a sine wave with double the peak voltage of either wire.

Right.. 2 phases 180 out.. but not called 2 phase. I learn something new again today! Seems like it should be called 2 phase, because there are two phases spread out equally. 3 phase has three spread out equally (120 deg).

edit: Wait, no I read again and I see: because the device sees one 220 phase. Got it. Thanks
 
My experience...
I bought a Graziano SAG12 lathe with a 3HP motor. Bought a Phase-a-matic 5HP converter and hooked it up. The converter blew up on the second start. I called the company to complain. Their reply? "Oh, you should have bought the HEAVY DUTY 5HP converter."

I threw it in the trash, searched on the internet and found a good deal on a 10HP rotary converter. Been running the crap out of it for maybe 5 years with no problems.
 
My experience...
I called the company to complain. Their reply? "Oh, you should have bought the HEAVY DUTY 5HP converter."

My experience with Phase-a-matic:

I called to complain about something. The man said you sound angry and asked about what
kind of issues I experienced in previous years to make me act like that. I told him that
in previous years I learned about the Better Business Bureau.
 
The interesting thing about poly phase currents, true two phase power was available over 100 years ago, and was before three phase. The problem was that it required 4 wires, two for each phase. 3 phase became popular because it only took three wires.

Tom
 
my 2 cents> they are crap, tried several models of the brand Phasamatic and all crap, the guys i know also agree, theyre crap.
rotary has lasted me 25 years.
 
My experience with Phase-a-matic:

I called to complain about something. The man said you sound angry and asked about what
kind of issues I experienced in previous years to make me act like that. I told him that
in previous years I learned about the Better Business Bureau.

I also learned that the motors they use are specially made by Baldor. The rotors are light in weight
compared to say a rotor in a typical motor with the same horse power rating. That makes them start easier.
A 5Hp model costs $960. The box on top has one or two capacitors. What a ripoff.
 
I also learned that the motors they use are specially made by Baldor. The rotors are light in weight
compared to say a rotor in a typical motor with the same horse power rating. That makes them start easier.
A 5Hp model costs $960. The box on top has one or two capacitors. What a ripoff.


It may not be such a ripoff, but it isn't a wonderful deal either. Buying a special motor in small quantity is going to cost a bunch.... And they may even be using special rotor laminations.

My Arco uses a dual winding rotor..... it has a high resistance outer set of rotor bars, and a low resistance inner set. That is sometimes done with motors also. The high resistance outer cage is effective when starting because it is also low inductance. Make it easier to start. At speed, the low resistance bars become effective when the slip frequency is low, and operate like a standard motor.

To lighten the rotor, the laminations need to be special. That requires special (expensive) stamping dies, different handling, possibly different die casting arrangement to put in the rotor bars, etc.

For the two winding rotor, with double holes for the two sets of bars, they need a stamping die, plus special handling and special die casting molds to put in the cast-in-place rotor bars. Then more special handling to put in the outer bars.

Motor companies make standard products well, but specials are just going to be more expensive, even without having to amortize tooling over fewer units.

How many RPCs can anyone sell per year? Especially now with VFDs able to do more things, cheaper. They are going to be a pain in Baldor's (or whoever's) tail, and will be charged accordingly.
 








 
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