Solid State Relays Instead of Contactor? - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Reversing, particularly if it will get "plugged" is much different than just turning something on and off.

    It may produce larger than LRA amps (and heating) for the time the motor is spinning down to zero, because the line and generated (back EMF)voltages can be series aiding.

    Other than that, once the motor stops just before reversing, you have LRA and a fairly normal "start". The difference is the pre-heating due to slowdown, and the potential for a bit of extra physical violence in the entire procedure

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    Quote Originally Posted by JST View Post
    It may produce larger than LRA amps (and heating) for the time the motor is spinning down to zero, because the line and generated (back EMF)voltages can be series aiding.

    Other than that, once the motor stops just before reversing, you have LRA and a fairly normal "start". The difference is the pre-heating due to slowdown, and the potential for a bit of extra physical violence in the entire procedure
    THIS .. various "not enough information" or "uncertainty factors".. is where a decent used or new 4Q DC Drive or a good NEW VFD soon pay for themselves.

    Or even just the appropriately "rated" and "stock" electro-mechanical contactor.

    Some major-maker with an R&D budget and tons of field experience feedback has largely already sorted what an individual is going to have to invest the time, research, learning, applying, and proving-out of, from a cold start.

    It doesn't take long before you've spent the same money or a good deal MORE,
    and are still a VERY long way from addressing the issues they have already tested and resolved.

    Success is a major part of how it became "their rice bowl", after all.

  4. #43
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    Default Solid State Relays Instead of Contactor?

    This thread has taken on a good, useful life of its own! Hopefully itíll be useful for future reference.

    Well, I debugged and fixed the problem, which actually turned out to be a loose connection; it is a temporary setup, but thatís changing soon.
    RPC is back up and running!
    Now I want to finish the job and make all the wire connections very secure, and package everything up neatly.

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    This thread has taken on a good, useful life of its own! Hopefully it’ll be useful for future reference.

    Well, I debugged and fixed the problem, which actually turned out to be a loose connection; it is a temporary setup, but that’s changing soon.
    RPC is back up and running!
    Now I want to finish the job and make all the wire connections very secure, and package everything up neatly.
    LOL! Well SPARK IGNITION for IC engines or SPARK-GAP radio transmission, or stick-welding are all forms of a "loose connection", too, ain't they?

    No surprise yah got a dose of high drama and elevated pucker-factor!

    Speaking of "elevated"... an old Field First Sergeant onct trained us up:

    "When the going gets TOUGH and you get a fuzzy feeling in the back of your throat?"

    "Don't COUGH!"

    "Swallow!"

    "That's your own coondingy trying to escape to a safer place, and you are damned well going to NEED it!"


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  7. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    This thread has taken on a good, useful life of its own! Hopefully it’ll be useful for future reference.

    Well, I debugged and fixed the problem, which actually turned out to be a loose connection; it is a temporary setup, but that’s changing soon.
    RPC is back up and running!
    Now I want to finish the job and make all the wire connections very secure, and package everything up neatly.
    Same thing happened to me twice this week. The only explanation is that vibrations from a machine loosened a couple of screws, except the machine does not
    vibrate that much.

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  9. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Why would you poke at me this way? Am I making a big mistake in understanding SSRs?
    I have been doing controls for a few years but I do respect your background
    Bob
    Too bad ignore feature does not block nested comments.
    Use your respect on those who deserve it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    I’ll be the first to admit I’m ignorant of many things, but I am curious and have a thirst to learn and explore and experiment, and I am far from lazy.
    The point... isn't that those HERE who ARE seeking to expand their knowledge are stoopid or lazy. The POINT is that most of the "horror stories" about ANY device come from those who did NOT do THEIR research as we here ARE doing and sharing.

    So be it mechanical contactor, undersized, unfortunately, SSR, or Old Skewl knife-switch, anything not used with appropriate respect of its limitations as to what it is good at or NOT? WILL trend heavily towards bad news.

    That doesn't make every example of the same tribe into a bad product. Just a product now and then badly APPLIED.

    Whatever it is...

    I blew-up a Crydon onct. Got distracted. Connected the POWER leads to where the signal leads belong. And the reverse. Flipped the upstream disconnect to ON. "POP .. goes the weasel!" Not a lot of drama, but the bugger was TOAST.

    Surely hasn't soured me on Crydom SSR's the next forty-plus year, has it?.

    The fuck up was my OWN. Not IRC's. Learnt to be more careful is all. Cheap enuf.


  11. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    Too bad ignore feature does not block nested comments.
    Use your respect on those who deserve it.
    Confused.....I should not respect thermite or my thinking on the subject is worth jack shit.
    I do not know why you use ignore, you can just skip past things or people at your will here.
    Responses in threads sent to your e-mail that you do not want ? Turn that silly thing off.
    Bob

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  13. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rons View Post
    Same thing happened to me twice this week. The only explanation is that vibrations from a machine loosened a couple of screws, except the machine does not
    vibrate that much.
    Welll? What could possibly go wrong whilst yer focused on trying to sell woof-tickets to git some OTHER folk to dis-a-peeing?

    What if it was not "the machine" as was responsible for vibrations?

    Or even for a few loose screws?


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    Default Solid State Relays Instead of Contactor?

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    The point... isn't that those HERE who ARE seeking to expand their knowledge are stoopid or lazy. The POINT is that most of the "horror stories" about ANY device come from those who did NOT do THEIR research as we here ARE doing and sharing.
    Yeah, I really appreciate how helpful this forum is, and the knowledgeable people who also choose to help!
    I wish search on PM was better. I usually find my older/reference PM threads of interest through Google et al.


    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post

    I blew-up a Crydon onct. Got distracted. Connected the POWER leads to where the signal leads belong. And the reverse. Flipped the upstream disconnect to ON. "POP .. goes the weasel!" Not a lot of drama, but the bugger was TOAST.

    Surely hasn't soured me on Crydom SSR's the next forty-plus year, has it?.

    The fuck up was my OWN. Not IRC's. Learnt to be more careful is all. Cheap enuf.

    Yeah, this screwup was definitely/obviously mine.
    The wiring is a temporary setup using some wire nuts. At least until after I get my new 200A household panel and service and wiring installed and inspection finalized. I definitely donít want or need an inspector looking at the machines in my garage and posing a bunch of questions.
    Once thatís finished up, Iím going to put in a single phase 100A subpanel in the garage and a 240V 3ph and 440V 3ph as tge downstream output from the RPC and transformation, with appropriate circuits for each machine.
    For the RPC wiring connections, Iím going to find some good lugs for connecting #4 and #6 AWG THWN2 and some cleanup and packaging.

  15. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Yeah, I really appreciate how helpful this forum is, and the knowledgeable people who also choose to help!
    I wish search on PM was better. I usually find my older/reference PM threads of interest through Google et al.




    Yeah, this screwup was definitely/obviously mine.
    The wiring is a temporary setup using some wire nuts. At least until after I get my new 200A household panel and service and wiring installed and inspection finalized. I definitely don’t want or need an inspector looking at the machines in my garage and posing a bunch of questions.
    Once that’s finished up, I’m going to put in a single phase 100A subpanel in the garage and a 240V 3ph and 440V 3ph as tge downstream output from the RPC and transformation, with appropriate circuits for each machine.
    For the RPC wiring connections, I’m going to find some good lugs for connecting #4 and #6 AWG THWN2 and some cleanup and packaging.
    Wire-nuts are code-blessed. Good ones, properly applied, and of the right SIZE work fine, even if sloppy LOOKING.

    My preference is terminal strips or lugs, even so.

    Similar plan on the load-centers, here, BTW.

    FWIW-not-much, all my "shop power" is also surface-mount in conduit, arranged so the whole shebang can be stripped out fast and cheaply when time comes to sell the house.

    Keep in mind that complicated stuff, no matter HOW well-implemented, scares-off buyers and/or can be a barrier even to a basic pre-sale inspection, let-alone full-court press by fire and 'lectrical 'spectors.

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  17. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    Wire-nuts are code-blessed. Good ones, properly applied, and of the right SIZE work fine, even if sloppy LOOKING.

    My preference is terminal strips or lugs, even so.

    Similar plan on the load-centers, here, BTW.

    FWIW-not-much, all my "shop power" is also surface-mount in conduit, arranged so the whole shebang can be stripped out fast and cheaply when time comes to sell the house.

    Keep in mind that complicated stuff scares-off buyers and/or can be a barrier even to a pre-sale inspection.

    Good points!
    I like lugs too. As far as neatness, I like terminal strips, but I need to order some larger ones.
    Eventually I may eventually sell, and youíre right about keeping it simple. Most people/buyers arenít going to want all this extra/3ph stuff, so surface mount in conduit is a good idea!


    As far as wiring stuff in the house, Iím also keeping it more simple and stringing 12-2 NM Romex, even when itís for a 15A circuit. Price difference isnít that much over 14-2

    At the house I was renting before, I deliberately did my garage subpanel and all the wiring as surface mount so I could pull everything without a trace. It all came out in an hour or two and Iím now reusing some of the #4 and #6 THWN2.
    Hardest part was pulling out the grounding rod...

  18. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Hardest part was pulling out the grounding rod...
    LOL! THAT I wudda abandoned in-place.

    Steel, with only a PLATING of Copper, and I mess with Gen sets and remoting of Phase-Perfect and RPC so I just "buy some" now and then.

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  20. #54
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    Let's keep this on topic without personal side issues, please.

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    Default Solid State Relays Instead of Contactor?

    Quote Originally Posted by thermite View Post
    LOL! THAT I wudda abandoned in-place.

    Steel, with only a PLATING of Copper, and I mess with Gen sets and remoting of Phase-Perfect and RPC so I just "buy some" now and then.
    Yeah, I should have done that!
    It was a lot of work even though I purposefully didnít drive it all the way in and left a couple of feet sticking up since I knew Iíd be removing it eventually.
    I used my pallet jack under the ground clamp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Confused.....I should not respect thermite or my thinking on the subject is worth jack shit.
    I do not know why you use ignore, you can just skip past things or people at your will here.
    Responses in threads sent to your e-mail that you do not want ? Turn that silly thing off.
    Bob
    Have no opinion on your respect or thinking.
    Ignore stuff to prevent people from stealing time from you.

  23. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by rpseguin View Post
    Yeah, I should have done that!
    It was a lot of work even though I purposefully didn’t drive it all the way in and left a couple of feet sticking up since I knew I’d be removing it eventually.
    I used my pallet jack under the ground clamp.
    The usual trick is to dig a bit, Hackzall it off below ground-level, backfill and tamp.

    Time spent is worth sumthin'. The rods themselves being mostly steel just don't cost that much, nor have that much value. used, onct the Copper plating has been driven through soil, rocks, and mineral fines, gotten bent a tad. etc.


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