VFD for 15hp polar air compressor 3 phase 230v 60hz 42amp

e30allday · Feb 17, 2021

hello every one so as the title says I need a 1 phase to 3 phase VFD for 15hp polar air compressor, it is 3 phase 230v 60hz and draws 42amps.
I'm here in the Caribbean and the voltage in 1 phase 220v 50hz.
can you recommend reputable companies to purchase from?

I've contacted a company called ATO. and they said that this would work:
drive model: GK3000-2S0150G
20 hp VFD, Single Phase to Three Phase VFD | ATO.com

I also got in contact with a distributor for Allen Bradley by Rockwell Automation and the rep seems to recommend the Powerflex 523 model
The cost of that unit would be around $1500
If anyone has experience with any of these companies please help me out, or if you know a good company that will provide great customer support and warranty; I will be grateful for the help.

mksj · Feb 17, 2021

VFD's for the most part cannot output a higher voltage than their input votage, so the motor would need to be run at 220V and would draw around 44A. Allen Bradley are reported to be good VFD's I would also check Motors and Controls, Wolf Automation who can advise on models or DrivesWarehouse which have very good pricing but less choices although there are a lot of distributors. You do not need anything fancy, just durability for a difficult load.
Homepage

You might look into the following Hitachi model which are 3 phase input so would derate for single phase input. The Hitachi the P1-01240-LFUF is 95A ND and in a derated mode 54.9A. On 220 depending on the load the range is in the 40-45A range, would need to call.
VFD P1-01240-LFUF, AC Motor Drive

Wolf Automation has the Fuji drives which are a less expensive line and seem to work well.
FRN0115E2S-2GB | Fuji Electric | AC Drives

Phil in Montana · Feb 17, 2021

You would get more bang for the buck with a rpc than a vfd, in the high hp the vfd cost becomes a major problem...Phil

e30allday · Feb 17, 2021

thanks for the reply, I should've stated that my background in electricity is poor lol. I was under the impression that one of the main function of the vfd would be to convert 1 phase to 3 phase. I'm kind of lost but I contacted wolf and got some good feedback. I actually had to look up the term derate as it applies to VFD's.
this is what the rep told me
Chris
Correct drive here: This is not to be used to feed another VFD: FRN0115E2S-2GB | Fuji Electric | AC Drives Not currently in inventory

VFD, 30hp (CT), Dual Rated, 90A, 3 Phase,Sensorles
VFD, 30hp (CT), Dual Rated, 90A, 3 Phase,Sensorless Vector, STO Input, High Performance
Marshall Wolf Automation | Industrial Automation Distributor | Tech Support

so this will work for me?

Slaask picture
Chris
Yes when single phase power is applied it will de-rate the VFD to 15HP and output of 45 Amps @ 230Vac. You need to wire any pressure switches to the start stop terminals on the VFD to give automatic run control.

ok would you be able to give me tech support after purchase ?

and also how much warranty does it come with?

Slaask picture
Chris
The factory does that level of support our support is for trouble shooting only, not for training or installation or wiring guidance.

Slaask picture

e30allday · Feb 17, 2021

thanks you

e30allday · Feb 17, 2021

mksj said:
VFD's for the most part cannot output a higher voltage than their input votage, so the motor would need to be run at 220V and would draw around 44A. Allen Bradley are reported to be good VFD's I would also check Motors and Controls, Wolf Automation who can advise on models or DrivesWarehouse which have very good pricing but less choices although there are a lot of distributors. You do not need anything fancy, just durability for a difficult load.
Homepage

You might look into the following Hitachi model which are 3 phase input so would derate for single phase input. The Hitachi the P1-01240-LFUF is 95A ND and in a derated mode 54.9A. On 220 depending on the load the range is in the 40-45A range, would need to call.
VFD P1-01240-LFUF, AC Motor Drive

Wolf Automation has the Fuji drives which are a less expensive line and seem to work well.
FRN0115E2S-2GB | Fuji Electric | AC Drives

thanks again, I think I'm going to get the Fuji drive. I like the quality of Japanese parts and honestly the price is great compared to the other companies that spoke to. I will run this by a friend and see what he has to say, thanks again.

mksj · Feb 18, 2021

You will probably need a DC buss choke with a VFD that is being derated for single phase use, something like the MTE DCA008002 or DCA009202 (80-100A 0.2-0.4 mH) for the VFD's mentioned which often can be picked up new/used through auctions or eBay. This will significantly decrease the fusing/input amperage requirements as well as wiring gauge per the Fuji manual. RPC would be a more costly option unless you can cobble something together, would require a bigger service and will have a higher electrical cost if running continuously. There are also of ancillary costs to their install as well as the size/weight and noise.
DCA008002 MTE NEW In Box DC Link Choke 80A 0.4mH Reactor | eBay

e30allday · Feb 18, 2021

mksj said:
You will probably need a DC buss choke with a VFD that is being derated for single phase use, something like the MTE DCA008002 or DCA009202 (80-100A 0.2-0.4 mH) for the VFD's mentioned which often can be picked up new/used through auctions or eBay. This will significantly decrease the fusing/input amperage requirements as well as wiring gauge per the Fuji manual. RPC would be a more costly option unless you can cobble something together, would require a bigger service and will have a higher electrical cost if running continuously. There are also of ancillary costs to their install as well as the size/weight and noise.
DCA008002 MTE NEW In Box DC Link Choke 80A 0.4mH Reactor | eBay

thanks I appreciate it and will definitely look into it and pick up one if necessary for my application. This is really one big learning curve for me but I am learning a lot. Thanks again!

SomeoneSomewhere · Feb 19, 2021

mksj said:
VFD's for the most part cannot output a higher voltage than their input votage, so the motor would need to be run at 220V and would draw around 44A. Allen Bradley are reported to be good VFD's I would also check Motors and Controls, Wolf Automation who can advise on models or DrivesWarehouse which have very good pricing but less choices although there are a lot of distributors. You do not need anything fancy, just durability for a difficult load.
Homepage

230 is close enough that this is unlikely to be a concern. If overcurrent tripping does cause an issue, lowering the output frequency to 55Hz instead of 60Hz will fix it with minimal loss in capacity.

Setting it up with multiple speeds or variable speed could also be considered but you will need either another pressure switch set slightly higher, or a pressure sensor.

e30allday · Feb 21, 2021

SomeoneSomewhere said:
230 is close enough that this is unlikely to be a concern. If overcurrent tripping does cause an issue, lowering the output frequency to 55Hz instead of 60Hz will fix it with minimal loss in capacity.

Setting it up with multiple speeds or variable speed could also be considered but you will need either another pressure switch set slightly higher, or a pressure sensor.

thank you, I will definitely take a note of the information you've provided.
the voltage down here is actually 230v 50hz.
I'm going to order the Fuji VFD on Monday morning. I will post pics of everything as soon as I get it.

SomeoneSomewhere · Feb 22, 2021

Yes, but you need to set the VFD output based on what the motor needs, not what the input to the VFD is. So you need to tell it that the motor is 230V 60Hz or it will potentially cook the motor.

Clive603 · Feb 22, 2021

Bringing a compressor up to speed is a hard starting load for a VFD. its important to be sure that the compressor is off load during run up. If yours doesn't have a proper load relief valve best to fit a solenoid one. Your compressor is probably too big to get a way with a large manifold on the output side draining down when the compressor stops.

May also need to tweak the settings into torque boost mode which gives a bit more oomph as the motor comes up through half speed or so.

I did one where normal settings on the vector drive weren't quite enough and, if the temperature was close to freezing, about one time in 5 (ish) it would settle at half speed. Not good for the motor. Always fine in warm weather but when cold the extra oil drag was just enough. That one had a big manifold rather than a solenoid relief too so a slow run up meant back pressure got high faster. Tweaked the settings for torque boost and runs like a champ now right down to -5°C.

Clive

mksj · Feb 22, 2021

Easton piston compressors have unloaders, so should not be an issue with start-up. The FUji VFD is dual rated, almost all VFD's have a heavy duty or full rated load with 150-180% overload for 1 minute, which can be dialed up as needed. In V/Hz setting their are different profiles for high torque start up loads. One can always adjust tweak the VFD parameters to the load providing they have the extra headroom, which should not be an issue with the degree of over sizing with this VFD. If recall the application is in the Caribbean so cold weather should not be an issue. One can also switch to a synthetic oil once it is broken in and this will decrease the cold start-up viscosity. The synthetic oils can be run significantly longer between oil changes, but due to moisture and contamination still should be changed at least yearly with less frequent use. I typically put an hour meter on compressor installs to determine oil change and maintenance intervals.

A VFD cannot be used as a power source for a scroll compressor, I am assuming this is a piston compressor. Have a few friends that have the Polar Air/Eaton compressors and have been happy with them, I have the Champion industrial line compressor and it also works well.

e30allday · Feb 26, 2021

SomeoneSomewhere said:
Yes, but you need to set the VFD output based on what the motor needs, not what the input to the VFD is. So you need to tell it that the motor is 230V 60Hz or it will potentially cook the motor.

yes I plan to set it up for the needs of the motor. The last thing that I want to do is fry the motor. thanks

e30allday · Feb 26, 2021

mksj said:
Easton piston compressors have unloaders, so should not be an issue with start-up. The FUji VFD is dual rated, almost all VFD's have a heavy duty or full rated load with 150-180% overload for 1 minute, which can be dialed up as needed. In V/Hz setting their are different profiles for high torque start up loads. One can always adjust tweak the VFD parameters to the load providing they have the extra headroom, which should not be an issue with the degree of over sizing with this VFD. If recall the application is in the Caribbean so cold weather should not be an issue. One can also switch to a synthetic oil once it is broken in and this will decrease the cold start-up viscosity. The synthetic oils can be run significantly longer between oil changes, but due to moisture and contamination still should be changed at least yearly with less frequent use. I typically put an hour meter on compressor installs to determine oil change and maintenance intervals.

A VFD cannot be used as a power source for a scroll compressor, I am assuming this is a piston compressor. Have a few friends that have the Polar Air/Eaton compressors and have been happy with them, I have the Champion industrial line compressor and it also works well.

Yes, I saw alot of great things about those polar compressors. I did a little research and decided that it was the one. You're absolutely right, I am in the Caribbean. The temperature is a nice 85 deg. everyday so no need to worry about cold start ups. This compressor is a piston compressor.

The only problem That I have now is that wolf said the vfd has 1 month lead time. Does anyone know of other credible websites that I can get this Fuji drive from? I'm very iffy about thee online sites. There is alot of shady stuff going on since this covid19 came about.

mksj · Feb 26, 2021

You will find that many of the VFD's are and will be out of stock for awhile. So I would check around to see if anybody has them in stock. As long as you avoid eBay, Amazon and such you should be fine, verify that they are an authorized dealer and inquire about warranty.

Another VFD to check out is the Teco E510 (NOT F510) which is in the same cost bracket and are more user friendly as far as the manual and setup. The E510-225-H3-U is rated at 25HP (73A) in HD mode which should be ok but I would use it with a DC buss choke. You can check with Wolf Automation as to availability and suitability. Dealers Industrial also stocks the E510 (and many other VFDs) at the same price and I have used them in the past. Teco also make a 30HP E510-230-H3-U, but I do not think you need that degree of over sizing, but check with the vendors as to the use/derating with single phase. FYI the typical over-sizing for 3 phase input VFD used with single phase is ~1.7, but it can vary widely and often VFD's will be rated higher (HP/A) for variable torque applications vs. constant torque and/or heavy duty mode.
E510-225-H3-U | Teco Westinghouse |
Purchase 25 HP VFD, 230 Volts, NEMA 1/IP20, Teco, E510-225-H3-U at Dealers Industrial

Just saw that the recommend derating for the Teco E510 is 50% for single phase input, so max is 12.5 HP which puts you back to the E510-230-H3-U.

e30allday · Mar 16, 2021

mksj said:
VFD's for the most part cannot output a higher voltage than their input votage, so the motor would need to be run at 220V and would draw around 44A. Allen Bradley are reported to be good VFD's I would also check Motors and Controls, Wolf Automation who can advise on models or DrivesWarehouse which have very good pricing but less choices although there are a lot of distributors. You do not need anything fancy, just durability for a difficult load.
Homepage

You might look into the following Hitachi model which are 3 phase input so would derate for single phase input. The Hitachi the P1-01240-LFUF is 95A ND and in a derated mode 54.9A. On 220 depending on the load the range is in the 40-45A range, would need to call.
VFD P1-01240-LFUF, AC Motor Drive

Wolf Automation has the Fuji drives which are a less expensive line and seem to work well.
FRN0115E2S-2GB | Fuji Electric | AC Drives

so I finally pulled the trigger on the Fuji drive. it supposed to be available from the factory on the 23rd. I'm hoping that it will take about 3 days to ship to NY and another 2 weeks by boat to ship to where i am in the Caribbean. I really can wait to get this part here. I

I will be posting pics and of course asking for help every step of the way when installing it. Hang tight :popcorn:

the hoow will start soon.

Ckiernan · Mar 16, 2021

You are getting the right size of 20HP since you need to de-rate the unit for converting 3 phase to single phase. $1500 is about right for the cost. Choices for single phase to 3 phase at that size might be limited. I worked for Allen-Bradley years ago and they sell a good product. Many of the Chinese drives you see on e-bay are based on Yaskawa technology which is reliable and has been around for many years but I don't see any large enough for your application.

CarbideBob · Mar 16, 2021

mksj said:
.....

A VFD cannot be used as a power source for a scroll compressor

Why?....
Bob

mksj · Mar 17, 2021

A VFD can directly drive a compressor, but cannot be used as a plug and play power source for other electrical components that control the compressor. I use quite a few Yaskawa drives in a derated mode for single phase input, something along the lines of the 2A0069FAA which is rated at 25Hp (69A) with a dc choke would work, but more than twice the price of the Fuji.

VFD for 15hp polar air compressor 3 phase 230v 60hz 42amp

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